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| miketate456 |
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miketate456
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 Posted: 22:43 - 31 Aug 2012  Post subject: Honda CG125 Flywheel Generator |
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Hi guy's
i have had what i thought was a battery issue with my bike i later took it to the place i brought the battery and had it tested just to make sure it was that at fault or not.....i got told the battery is perfectly fine but what maybe at fault is my reg rec (Regulator Rectifier) or it could be my flywheel generator.....
Does anyone know how much it will cost if its the reg rec or even the flywheel generator charging unit?????
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| N cee thirty |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 16:52 - 01 Sep 2012  Post subject: |
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| Rob Fzs wrote: | Check for 12v + at the rectifer,
if not then your gennys fucked and they are a real bastard to get for cg's of your age |
Give him a clue Rob... he's obviousely struggling, and now even more perplexed by Cansa's baiting him about bringing rather than buying!
Regulator/rectifier: Box of electronic tricks that sits between the fly-wheel generator and the battery.
Flywheel generator, or 'Magneto' produces a voltage when the magnet in the flywheel or rotor passes the end of the winding on the back-plate / stator.
It probably is an 'alternator' at least for the charging & light circuits, as it will create a +v 'pulse' when magnet passes one end of the coil, then a -v 'pulse' when its gone 180 deg and passes the other end, hence produces 'alternating current'.
But, being a simple divice; it the voltage it generates depends how fast the magnet is spinning past the coils; faster engine revs more volts you'll get.
Regulatur-Rectifier, then takes the raw volts produced by the genny, feeds them through a bridge rectifier to turn the negative volts into positive volts, and then the 'regulator' will try and smooth out the pulsing supply a bit, and 'clip' it above about 13.5 volts to stop excess volts frying your battery or blowing bulbs and stuff.
Usually they are mounted on the frame near the head-stock, probably opposite the ignition coil, and will be a finned metal block with wires coming out, as they can get hot.
Few types, for different generators, depending on how many generator coils they have to rectify. The device needs a good 'earth', that may be on a connector pin, or via the frame mounting, then there will be a connector pin for the main feed to supply the battery, and then one, two of three pins; one for each coil in the magneto.
If you have a volt-meter, you can test accross the battery with the engine 'off' and you ought to get about 12v... then start engine and if regulator is good then volts ought to ibcrease to around 13.5v ish.
And you can test actual regulator in-puts and out-puts in similar manner.
Rob... your turn... what type of regulator should he have, what does it look like, where does he find it on the bike?
He may be lucky if its one of the simpler ones used on pit-bikes & Chinky CG copies, if it IS duff, becouse if he knows which 'type' will work, then you can get them for around £10 - £15 off e-bay, rather than £30-£40 for genuine replacements from Dave-Silver-Scares.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| N cee thirty |
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| miketate456 |
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miketate456
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Posted: 23:40 - 01 Sep 2012  Post subject: |
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cheers alpha for that lol i didnt know exactly how to put the words
Teflon mike
that all seems to make sence so when the bike is started the battery should produce more than 13v which would suggest that the regulator is fine..that makes sence
if it is the case of the flywheel generator that is screwed i have got a back up 1 i have found but just out of interest do you know roughly how much it is to get the coils rewound??? |
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| lihp |
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lihp
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| Posted: 23:57 - 01 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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How old are you?
Have you budgeted separately for helmet, gloves, & riding 'gear'?
What about insurance & running costs?
CBT?
And what about tests?
£600 is scraping the barel money for a 125, and you are looking at snapping up anything that has a running engine tax & test you can ride away at that sort of price, and cant afford to bee too picky what it is!
See webby for more bumph:-
I want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do I start?
In the FAQ's is where to look, and what to look for.
BUT starting place really is to sort your CBT. Get that done, instructors will clue you up on a lot of what you need to know, and offer advice on expensive purchase choices, might even have local knowledge to help you out, and may even know some-one who they have just got through tests that has a 125 they want to get rid of to fund a big-bike.
Do the course, find out IF you can ride a bike, if you ENJOY riding a bike, and whether its worth going ahead with the plan, before spending any 'big' money.... and get some clues and pointers where to take it after.
Hope this helps solve your problem! HTH  |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 02:29 - 02 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| miketate456 wrote: | so when the bike is started the battery should produce more than 13v which would suggest that the regulator is fine..that makes sence |
Err... no.. with the engine off, the battery should give a terminal voltage of around 12v.
When you turn the engine on, THEN the generator ought to be knocking huice out through the regulator to the battery, and in order for charge to go 'in' to the battery, needs to have more voltage than the battery, so you ought to see a voltage 'rise' to something around 13.5v.
If the regulator is a dodo.... you can get any number of strange things happen.
a) A wire has fallen out or Something inside has 'burned out' leaving no connection between input and out-put.
Gives no change on terminal voltage, and battery will probably go flat with use, becouse nothing is charging it up!
b) A diode or other component 'dies' in closed circuit. ie: it still conducts electricity, but is acting like a bit or wire or a resistor and not doing whatever it was supposed to.
If its a Diode.... which is main components in a rectifier / regulator, these are a one-way valve in an electric circuit.
If you turn the ignition 'on' and get a lower terminal voltage accross the battery, than when the ignition was off, then chance this has happened, as curerent is now flowing backwards through the regulator!
If when you start the engine, you get an initial voltage drop, then the voltage rises with engine speed, then again, whats happening is the reg-rect isn't doing its job, and you are getting unregulated volts straight to the battery, possibly anything up to around 20v if you scream the motor.
You can also get anomolouse readings, depending on what bits inside the reg-rect have gone, or how.
To check the stator windings.....
Unplug the reg-rect. Its a CG so engine ought to still run. Both points and CDi models I believe use a seperate 'self exited' ignition circuit that has its own winding on the stator independent of the charge & lighting coils.
Worth noting here, that some GC's & I think yours as its a points model may be one, had 'AC-Direct Lighting'.
Rather than have two or three windings in the stator all rectified by the reg-rect and charging the battery, and the battery then supplying the lights.......
One winding in the stator is dedicated to the lights, and supplies the head-lamp and probably the tail lamp, with AD current direct from the magneto.
Its a more efficient 'system' on a low powered bike, and AC supply means that the bulbs are more effectively 'exited' so can bang out more light for the volts they see! In theory! In practice you get dim lights at tick-over revs, and will probably blow tail-lamp bulbs if you thrash it!
If so, check the wiring schematic carefully, because they some-times use some complicated switching, so that when the lights are 'off' power from that coil gets directed at the regulator to help charge the battery.....
AND, duff earths or contacts in seemingly unconected switches can then give same SYMPTOMS as a duff rectifier, as volts take a path of least resistance and don't go through it!
Any-how! Rectifier isolated, engine running..... you ought to have two, possibly three wires from the stator windings; one may-be AC-Direct lighting coil, one or two will be charging coils.
And with an AC setting on a multi-meter, you can simply probe them and measure delivered voltage.
Ought to be around the 12v mark.... ish rising with revs, and volts ought to be roughly the same on each out-put.
If you get no volts on any, then you probably have a broken wire or broken down winding, while a low voltage, would probably suggest a winding 'short'.
Anyway, do the diagnostics methodically with the volt-meter.... its only TIME, costs nothing..... and isn't difficult, you don't have to start pulling flywheels or even taking cases off to do it, BEFORE diving in and trying to fault-find by substitution, randomly swapping devices, and hoping for the best!
A duff regulator can be caused by a knackered generator, so swapping out, simply results in a repeat failure.
I have no idea how much getting a stator rewound is likely to cost, I'm afraid. For a car alternator, depending on size, anything from £30 - £100.... For a bike? I wouldn't like to guess! Probably not so much wire in it, but fidly little fuckers! If Rewinders dont like the look of it, or deem it too much hastle, could quote you stupid! But, I think I'd be happy if they'd do one for £30 or so.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| unitynotsocri... |
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unitynotsocri...
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| Posted: 14:38 - 02 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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Its should have 2 coils under the flywheel,and points of course.
one coil is to charge the battery,the other coil is to switch in te lighting circuit.the lighting coil has 2 taps,in effect 2 coils in one so when you turn on main beam the coil provides a bit of extra juice.
Note ...earlier cg's are 6 volt and have no interchangable lighting/ignition coils...many argue wether early cg's really did have real lights.
The coils can be checked with a multi meter.if they are nacked then it would be about £80 plus to have it rewound...or...considering its a very simple coil........try rewinding it yourself as if its knacked you've nothing to lose.You may find a chinky coil that would fit but it would be very unlikely as they all have cdi ignition.
When setting your points through the flywheel gap(i.e. o level gynacology) make sure the points are flat n clean.Points may be more unreliable but due to the one cam/equal inlet/exhaust timing on the cg it allows you more scope to 'tune' the engine for 'high' speed or round town.Flywheel extractors are cheapish 10 to 20 squids and worth it if you'e developed a cg fetish or if you are a beginner to mechanics and fancy trying an engine rebuild (CG's are really good for learning on ).
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| N cee thirty |
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| Posted: 14:43 - 02 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | | miketate456 wrote: | so when the bike is started the battery should produce more than 13v which would suggest that the regulator is fine..that makes sence |
Err... no.. with the engine off, the battery should give a terminal voltage of around 12v.
When you turn the engine on, THEN the generator ought to be knocking huice out through the regulator to the battery, and in order for charge to go 'in' to the battery, needs to have more voltage than the battery, so you ought to see a voltage 'rise' to something around 13.5v.
If the regulator is a dodo.... you can get any number of strange things happen.
a) A wire has fallen out or Something inside has 'burned out' leaving no connection between input and out-put.
Gives no change on terminal voltage, and battery will probably go flat with use, becouse nothing is charging it up!
b) A diode or other component 'dies' in closed circuit. ie: it still conducts electricity, but is acting like a bit or wire or a resistor and not doing whatever it was supposed to.
If its a Diode.... which is main components in a rectifier / regulator, these are a one-way valve in an electric circuit.
If you turn the ignition 'on' and get a lower terminal voltage accross the battery, than when the ignition was off, then chance this has happened, as curerent is now flowing backwards through the regulator!
If when you start the engine, you get an initial voltage drop, then the voltage rises with engine speed, then again, whats happening is the reg-rect isn't doing its job, and you are getting unregulated volts straight to the battery, possibly anything up to around 20v if you scream the motor.
You can also get anomolouse readings, depending on what bits inside the reg-rect have gone, or how.
To check the stator windings.....
Unplug the reg-rect. Its a CG so engine ought to still run. Both points and CDi models I believe use a seperate 'self exited' ignition circuit that has its own winding on the stator independent of the charge & lighting coils.
Worth noting here, that some GC's & I think yours as its a points model may be one, had 'AC-Direct Lighting'.
Rather than have two or three windings in the stator all rectified by the reg-rect and charging the battery, and the battery then supplying the lights.......
One winding in the stator is dedicated to the lights, and supplies the head-lamp and probably the tail lamp, with AD current direct from the magneto.
Its a more efficient 'system' on a low powered bike, and AC supply means that the bulbs are more effectively 'exited' so can bang out more light for the volts they see! In theory! In practice you get dim lights at tick-over revs, and will probably blow tail-lamp bulbs if you thrash it!
If so, check the wiring schematic carefully, because they some-times use some complicated switching, so that when the lights are 'off' power from that coil gets directed at the regulator to help charge the battery.....
AND, duff earths or contacts in seemingly unconected switches can then give same SYMPTOMS as a duff rectifier, as volts take a path of least resistance and don't go through it!
Any-how! Rectifier isolated, engine running..... you ought to have two, possibly three wires from the stator windings; one may-be AC-Direct lighting coil, one or two will be charging coils.
And with an AC setting on a multi-meter, you can simply probe them and measure delivered voltage.
Ought to be around the 12v mark.... ish rising with revs, and volts ought to be roughly the same on each out-put.
If you get no volts on any, then you probably have a broken wire or broken down winding, while a low voltage, would probably suggest a winding 'short'.
Anyway, do the diagnostics methodically with the volt-meter.... its only TIME, costs nothing..... and isn't difficult, you don't have to start pulling flywheels or even taking cases off to do it, BEFORE diving in and trying to fault-find by substitution, randomly swapping devices, and hoping for the best!
A duff regulator can be caused by a knackered generator, so swapping out, simply results in a repeat failure.
I have no idea how much getting a stator rewound is likely to cost, I'm afraid. For a car alternator, depending on size, anything from £30 - £100.... For a bike? I wouldn't like to guess! Probably not so much wire in it, but fidly little fuckers! If Rewinders dont like the look of it, or deem it too much hastle, could quote you stupid! But, I think I'd be happy if they'd do one for £30 or so. |
basically what i said but 500 words longer, west country windings wanted like £100 to rewind mine.
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