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hollowgod89
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Teflon-Mike
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 Posted: 10:23 - 15 Aug 2012  Post subject: |
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At the moment - None.
Suggestion was put forward by yours truly & project is not going 'well'.
Going back to basics; CD200 only makes 15bhp anyway.... so if you were to machine 125 cases to take take 200 barrels, then use CD200 crank so you could fit CD200 pistons... you would have a CM200 motor in effect.... a 15bhp 5-speed Benley engine.
You'd get more power from using JUST the 'Full-Power' T-Spec cam from earlier CB125 twin..... that offers 17bhp, and probably 'key' to making ANY improvement over stock CB125 lump.
Using the CD200 crank of course would preclude using that cam, unless you got the crank pressed apart and re-phased 180 deg, or had the Benley cam reground to the CB125 full power profile...
Something I have drawn a blank on getting any-one to 'do', whether cutting that profile onto a blank, or regrinding either 125 'reduced effect' 180 timed cam or 360 timed CD/CM cam.
Mixing & matching the various CD/CM/CD bits, nigger in the wood-pile is constantly this piston/gudgeon/con-rod issue...
To which end, as far as I'm aware no one has found answer....
Nightshade has taken notion furthest in the metal, and I believe he baulked at the gudgeon pin problem trying to get CD200 slugs onto the CB125 bottom end, & don't know what he has done about it, I suspect he's running 125 barels at the mo.
Chinky 'Big-Bore' kit, using oversized 125 pistons on 13mm gudgeon, get you out to 142cc, which ent bugger all in grander schemes, but would appear to be as 'big' as you can go without seriouse engineering...... but, running 'reduced effect' Super-Dream cam-shaft, reports suggest, isn't worth more than a bhp or so.... which brings us back to the 'full-power' 'Twin' profile cam, that's worth 5bhp, with a pair of 26mm carbs.
Its a game of swings and round-abouts, and the variouse motors are all so much 'there or there-abouts' in terms of stock power, irrespective of capacity... its identifying what ingredients from each are 'key' to maximising by mixing.
CB125 'Full' power cam would appear to be the BIGGEST key to finding more power, offering almost as much as any of the other engines of any capacity, without the extra capacity.
Bumping capacity alone then, is not likely to see such big gains, with risk, that what you do to gain capacity could see bigger losses...
Eg... if you did manage to graft CB200 pistons onto CB125 conrods... CB200 is a 15bhp engine, and effectively reducing its capacity.. I think its actually 186cc on 41mm stroke.... you would get LESS than standard 200 makes.... so something under 15bhp.... and with 'reduced effect' 125 offering 13bhp as stock, there's only 2bhp in it to begin with......
Given the margins we are working with, then, have to think hard about doing 'cheap and easy' stuff just because you CAN, or think you can... because risk is it wont work, bigger risk, that chasing the 'knock-ons' you do more and more work TRYING to make it 'work' in the process!
Remember, Honda only ever managed to get 21bhp from ANY of the Benley motors, in the CMX 250 Rebel, running 53x53 bore & stroke for 233cc capacity.
233cc CB250, only managed 19bhp. Early CB200 with 'plug' type heads only 17bhp. CD200 only 15bhp. CD125, only 11bhp. CM125 only 10bhp.
CB125 'Reduced Effect' Super-Dream or TD-C/E/J attaining 12.5bhp, is then pretty 'respectable' for any of the family engines.
CB125T (Twin-Shock) managing a 'claimed' 17, is bludy excelent, and as much or more than almost any of the relatives, bar the 233cc motors....
If you spend some time on CMSL comparing part numbers between the family, you'll find that the later twin-shock T's ran the CDi ignition used on the Super-Dream and the CDi units are same part number. The rare 'Full-Power' Super-Dream, basically runs the last of the line Twin-shock engine, only updated with different carb-bodies with, linked cable-op choke. Differences between the Full-Power & Reduced effect Super-Dream, is the carb size and the cam shaft.... that's it! Valve sizes, exhausts, everything else is the same!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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hollowgod89
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 12:41 - 15 Aug 2012  Post subject: |
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| hollowgod89 wrote: | So if my gain is going to be practically anything, not that im looking for all that much. would it be more effective to dump the CD engine (if its a runner) Into my CB frame.. With its gearing and piston timing.
would there be any gain that end? |
Yup, you'd loose a gear, though no great loss, 5th on the Super-Dream is pretty much an Over-Drive anyway......
You'd get about 2-3bhp 'peak' from the CD lump, which wont make big difference to top end.... still going to be in the 70 region.
But got more bottom end 'oomph' and will hold higher speeds a tad better.
Would need ignition 'hybridising', depending what system Benley motor runs, to match Super-Dream 'loom'.
And yeah, 'Full-Power' 125T cams are like hen's teeth.
I have one, New-Old-Stock, that took two and a half years of scouring to find, and £150 to buy!
I was hoping to use it as a 'Master' to get some 'reduced effect' cams re-ground to its profile, but, cant even find any-one to do that!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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hollowgod89
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Posted: 16:34 - 15 Aug 2012  Post subject: |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: |
And yeah, 'Full-Power' 125T cams are like hen's teeth.
I have one, New-Old-Stock, that took two and a half years of scouring to find, and £150 to buy!
I was hoping to use it as a 'Master' to get some 'reduced effect' cams re-ground to its profile, but, cant even find any-one to do that! |
Remember reading A thread like that of yours somewhile back That said you'd sorced one and planned to template it. That not gone well then im guessing..
/damns.. was gna see if ya'd do mine 
And my bottom end oomph seemed decent enough before , like hot snot to 35..
Running a custom loom, Had to re-wire the whole thing a While back. Not sure If The CD lump I have is a TA or TB model though. not sure what my tell tales are to look for.
Another issue that ive got is dumping The kick-start from The CD to the CB. The side casing match, Lugs, nuts, gears.. everything. Just looks like the TDC was made without one but its all there ready.
but when slipping the kickstart in. it just 'locks' up. Neither hell nor Hades can get that thing to move and turn it over
____________________
Honda CG125 (died a noble death)- Honda CB125TD (modified and converted into.....) - Honda CB200 Benley Cafe (Burnt to cinders by idiots)- Honda CB500 (training for test) - Honda CB600F Hornet (damn laws changed/ passed test on)- Honda Shadow 750 Trike (borrowed for a month while bike was under service CBR--->)- Honda CBR600 F2 - (The only bike I've know to be a 'He') - Suzuki RF900R (borrowing on a mid-long term basis) - Yamaha XJ600 Diversion (oil rings locked up and seized engime of a f*cking motorway) - Honda CBR1000F hurricane ( Aye she's a fast 'un) |
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hollowgod89
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| Posted: 09:42 - 18 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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Right.. For what seemed like a simple enough project im really outa my depths. so,
my thoughts for now are slip the CD engine in.
CD200 in that strange as TD-C monoshock 
Im assuming the thing is 12V being the starter motor is a 12v thing
so not to high on costs with my electrical mix'n'match
While im on the wire. And while The engine is still in several pieces
CD 185 pistons? same bore, higher compression aint they?
would they just slide in or is there timing and knocking issues? 
____________________
Honda CG125 (died a noble death)- Honda CB125TD (modified and converted into.....) - Honda CB200 Benley Cafe (Burnt to cinders by idiots)- Honda CB500 (training for test) - Honda CB600F Hornet (damn laws changed/ passed test on)- Honda Shadow 750 Trike (borrowed for a month while bike was under service CBR--->)- Honda CBR600 F2 - (The only bike I've know to be a 'He') - Suzuki RF900R (borrowing on a mid-long term basis) - Yamaha XJ600 Diversion (oil rings locked up and seized engime of a f*cking motorway) - Honda CBR1000F hurricane ( Aye she's a fast 'un) |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 18:47 - 18 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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| hollowgod89 wrote: | Right.. For what seemed like a simple enough project im really outa my depths. so,
my thoughts for now are slip the CD engine in.
CD200 in that strange as TD-C monoshock
Im assuming the thing is 12V being the starter motor is a 12v thing
so not to high on costs with my electrical mix'n'match
While im on the wire. And while The engine is still in several pieces
CD 185 pistons? same bore, higher compression aint they?
would they just slide in or is there timing and knocking issues? |
Not sure where you are at.
CD185 pistons? Not sure. Would have to go check specs, but yeah, one or other, CD175 or CD185 is over-bored 125 with the same crank throw as 125 but bore diameter of the 200.
BUT I suspect that the gudgeon piston issue may raise its ugly head again! Nightshaddow is your man here, becouse I think this is what he was investigating, on principle that IF the CD175/185 used the 125's 41mm stroke crank, may also use the 13mm gudgeon, hence he'd be able to use the pistons on 125 bottom end with the 200 barrels.... if he is right, then trying to use the hiogher comp pistons on the 200 bottom end would give you the reverse problem that the gudgeon pin size was too small for the con-rod.
As for the electrics..... there ARE going to be differences.
Benleys came in variouse guises, 6v and 12v and points and CDi.
Personally I'd use the Super-Dream generator on the benley motor, to be sure I had 12v generator, and CDi triggers, AND for easier compatability with the Super-Dream loom... it would just plug in as stock.
BUT Super-Dream has 'twin' self exited CDI ignition, one curcuit for each pot, and two triggers, 180 about to time them for the 180 firing interval.
Benley has 360 crank and uses a single point or trigger system firing a syamese coil, on poth pots.
If you run the twin Super-Dream couls off a single CDi possibility you will get a weak spark, and or, fry the CDI.
Better to 'twin' the signal from the top trigger to BOTH CDI's and let them fire the two coild together.
Nightshaddow has done this I believe on a CM125 motor, and can tell you exactly where to make the chop & splice on the wiring if you cant work it out on the loom ' schematic.
Takes care of ignition and electricals.
Only other issue is carbs. Super-Dream frame has the rear cradle tubes 'bowed' to clear twin carbs, and a rail with the shock-mount between the carbs.
Stick a single carb manifold on, and the mouth of the carb is pointing at that shock mount.... you cant run the twin air-boxes, so you need to fab a battery support, and there's not enough room to put a 'pod' filter on the end of the carb with teh shock mount in the way....
So, open carb, fabbed air-box, or you need to run the twin-carbs on the benley motor... which is probably what I would do....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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hollowgod89
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| Posted: 22:24 - 21 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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Carbs? il be running the superdreams
Right. chopping the wiring down that end to ensure ive a 12V system. wouldn't that mean both sparks would be out of time or would i be getting two sparks and two 180 timing dirties? (does that make sense??)
Ive actually gotten hold of a haynes manual pretty much for the wiring pages. shes a 12V CD. so if i stay with the CD's side. do i cut to run both cdis into both coils? you said i might burn out or cause weak sparks running one CDI.
suggestions...
Thinking of running Iridium plugs, lesson the weak spark issue some
cant find a CD200 CDI unit anywhere either. its like the things dont exist. Is there a variant i can use in its place? aftermarket/racing 
Nice little question;
what do i refer to her as lol
she's not a superdream no more
she's not the body of a CD either 
____________________
Honda CG125 (died a noble death)- Honda CB125TD (modified and converted into.....) - Honda CB200 Benley Cafe (Burnt to cinders by idiots)- Honda CB500 (training for test) - Honda CB600F Hornet (damn laws changed/ passed test on)- Honda Shadow 750 Trike (borrowed for a month while bike was under service CBR--->)- Honda CBR600 F2 - (The only bike I've know to be a 'He') - Suzuki RF900R (borrowing on a mid-long term basis) - Yamaha XJ600 Diversion (oil rings locked up and seized engime of a f*cking motorway) - Honda CBR1000F hurricane ( Aye she's a fast 'un) |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 01:15 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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There are two trigger wires from the inductors in the magneto casing on the Super-Dream engine.
One is at the top, one is at the bottom, giving the 180 degree timing.
You snip the feed from one (probably the bottom one) and you tap into the feed from the other and take it to both CDI's so each CDi is still firing one coil, BUT with one trigger firing both CDi's.
Dead simple.
Make sense?
Means you dont over-load either CDi and each Coil can give its all to its own plug.
What do you call it?
A CB125 - Super-Benley 200 'Special'!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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hollowgod89
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| Posted: 17:13 - 24 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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yeah that does make sense.
just waiting on some gaskets and thats me lot i belive.
She was 'Baby'
but i do believe a bigger engine leads to growing up
Thanxs Tef,
If ive any more novice newbie questions.
Tis you il be a bugging
____________________
Honda CG125 (died a noble death)- Honda CB125TD (modified and converted into.....) - Honda CB200 Benley Cafe (Burnt to cinders by idiots)- Honda CB500 (training for test) - Honda CB600F Hornet (damn laws changed/ passed test on)- Honda Shadow 750 Trike (borrowed for a month while bike was under service CBR--->)- Honda CBR600 F2 - (The only bike I've know to be a 'He') - Suzuki RF900R (borrowing on a mid-long term basis) - Yamaha XJ600 Diversion (oil rings locked up and seized engime of a f*cking motorway) - Honda CBR1000F hurricane ( Aye she's a fast 'un) |
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hollowgod89
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| Posted: 14:42 - 02 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| hollowgod89 wrote: | though my terminology is very wrong, one magneto/generator. looked to be internal to the case the other external.. uhm, the lugs that where causing the firing didnt look rightly placed.
thanks to a wiring guide i know its a 12V,
wired both cdi's together. uhm. blue/white and yellow white into the cd's blue/white . from both wiring diagrams those are the only things making them not spark together.
Getting a good spark, and good wasted spark. so, might not need to fork out for 'ridium's . engine is a runner...
I know i must be annoying the heck outa ya, new issue.
be the carbs. got them mounted. set to cb standard the secong i hit the throotle kill my engine. lowered the carb pin and got myself to work on it (in a cloud of blue smoke) maybe pulled thirty tops. returned home. dropped the pin once more (clip is in highest groove) ran it up and down lane. forty tops i think. its a job to get there...
so any suggestions. ive cleaned carbs prior to this, fresh fuel too.
do i need to swap jets. if so what too.
Did the CD carb have an accelerator pump.?
haynes is no help help, it gives me (as expected) the details for the single carb it ran. which had two main jets and a slow, as opposed to my cb carbs only having one main jet and a slow |
Scratch that, today took me ten mins to get ticking over. A further ten to get enough revs to actually ride it. half mile down lane left cylinder kicked in fully. (god she moves) another half mile and my revs dropped to nothing. until she died. had to push her a mile home and then peddle the eight miles to work..
on returning ive swapped the needle settings around.. higher the needle, harder she is to start or doesnt start. lower needle ends, ticks over but throttle kills her.
left hand spark plug (as sitting on bike (cylinder thats the issue))- clean as hell
right hand one - oily but fires every time.
swapping leads to plugs, no difference.
so a carb issue? i hope?? help???
____________________
Honda CG125 (died a noble death)- Honda CB125TD (modified and converted into.....) - Honda CB200 Benley Cafe (Burnt to cinders by idiots)- Honda CB500 (training for test) - Honda CB600F Hornet (damn laws changed/ passed test on)- Honda Shadow 750 Trike (borrowed for a month while bike was under service CBR--->)- Honda CBR600 F2 - (The only bike I've know to be a 'He') - Suzuki RF900R (borrowing on a mid-long term basis) - Yamaha XJ600 Diversion (oil rings locked up and seized engime of a f*cking motorway) - Honda CBR1000F hurricane ( Aye she's a fast 'un) |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 17:28 - 03 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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So, its running rich at on idle jet, becouse lifting needle ritchening micture makes it flood, and not start.
Dropping the needle, stops it flooding so it runs OK on ide jet, but soon as you open the throttle and let some air through, it leans out and bogs.....
So maybe an alternative needle with a greater taper? CG item?
Smaller pilot jet and lift the needle?
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Posted: 00:28 - 14 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| hollowgod89 wrote: | | STONEY! wrote: | Hi all
New Id seen this thread about this somewhere lol just bought a cb125t fitted with a cb250 233cc engine running twin carbs and k&n's
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did not think a 250 would slot into her.. theres a thought |
Its not a '250' its a 'two-fifty'....
The 'old' CB250's were a different series of engines to the last of the line CB Two-Fifty or 'Night-Hawk', which used a stroked version of the 360 crank benley engine, running 53x53 bore stroke for 233cc, often reffered to as the 233 engines.
As its the same cases as the Benley motors, fits benley family bikes..... only makes 19bhp though, so its no great gain over any of the other Benley based lumps.
The CB250N 'Super-Dream' would give a healthy power boost, they chucked out around 25bhp from the 3v head versions, but its a completely different and physically MUCH bigger engine, originally designed as a 400, with counter-balence shaft and sleeved down to 250 for then UK & other markets licence restrictions.. that engine WONT go into a 125TD- chassis without a LOT of hacking!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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