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Need a bit of legal Advice (SEIZURE NOTICE)

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shed21
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Need a bit of legal Advice (SEIZURE NOTICE) Reply with quote

Hi a mate of mine today took his Nrg for an M.O.T the mot station is litrally 5 mins walk from home ..he pushed it there this morning and it failed on a few faults so he went and collected the scooter this afternoon on the same road as the MOT station he got pulled by the Police and they gave him a seizure notice and took the bike

The bike isnt currently insured as he has just bought the bike and no TAX or MOT

He also sent the logbook off a couple of days ago and still waiting to recive it From dvla

Need abit of advice as they are wanting £120 ,MoT ,tax,insurance documents but how when he explained without M.o.t he cant get insured he cant tax it without mot & insurance documents


Any advice will be muchly aprechiated thanks..shed
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mk1GSF wrote:
You can insure without MOT.


You can. Cant tax it without a valid MOT though.

Your going to have to book the bike in for an MOT and pick it up on a trailer. They shouldnt be able to refuse you if the bike is not being ridden on the road and its going straight to the MOT centre.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:46 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Around here if you see a younger person pushing a moped/motorbike the chances are they have nicked it and the police will pull them.

It doesn't help your friend but you really do have to make sure you are legal or you will get it in the neck.

As said above, you can insure a bike, then take it to the MOT station and when it passes get tax. You are allowed to ride it to the MOT station but only if it is insured.
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Last edited by Polarbear on 20:48 - 06 Sep 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Nope.
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the police were well within their rights to take it. Technically he was still using a vehicle on a public highway without valid 3rd party insurance cover.

Driving is defined very widely and you don't need to actually sit on a bike and propel it by means of the engine. Pushing constitutes driving. Its a commonly made mistake.

He doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as I can see but I'll let someone more informed confirm the above.
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P.
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, you don't take a vehicle on a public road without insurance. regardless of anything else... it needs insurance to go to an MOT station.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was agreeing with what you said. You said you can insure it without an MOT... I agreed.

Rolling Eyes
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CustomJ
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I bought my bike, it had no tax or MOT. It was 70 miles away. I took out insurance, booked it in for an MOT Wink and rode it back.

Perfectly fine. Slightly stretched the wording of the law, but it worked. For the next day or so I was riding it:
To the MOT
To a place of repair (my house)
Back to another place of repair (the garage)
Another place of repair (my house again)
Off to the MOT.
Then lastly to the post office to get my shiney tax disc.

Passed a number of coppers, not one took any notice.
-J
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John933
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to be very careful. But I think your mate is stufed.
Sad
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yambabe
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

He can insure it, and he can SORN it at the post office with his green slip from the V5.

He can then take the green slip, insurance cert, SORN confirmation and payment and the police should release it to him provided he turns up with a trailer or van to take it home with.

They won't let him ride it away or push it away with no MOT.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm fully aware of the law but have always been of the opinion that it takes a particularly cuntish type of cop to penalise someone that is merely pushing a bike along the road/pavement.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:
I'm fully aware of the law but have always been of the opinion that it takes a particularly cuntish type of cop to penalise someone that is merely pushing a bike along the road/pavement.


Maybe, but you always get them. I had one who tried to do me for being over the odds (pissed) in my camper van when parked in a layby (sp Confused ). It was only cause the GF was sober and insured to drive it or I would have been done.
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colicabcadam
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you sure he was not riding it ?

but as others have said, it is illegal to have a vehicle on the highway if it is uninsured and has no tax, it even needs an MOT to some extent, so he has broken all three laws lol

why would your mate even bother getting an MOT ? you cant ride it as there's no insurance on it

getting it back, well, how much is it worth ? you'll need the

log book
insurance document for either him or whoever plans to ride it
sorn certificate
mot pre-booked with proof if he plans on riding it for the day he collects it
or a trailer if no one is riding it

you also need to understand that most insurance companies will NOT allow you to collect a vehicle from a police pound !

it is also costing about £30 in storage charges a day after 2 weeks they scrap it or sell it on
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colicabcadam
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mk1GSF wrote:
colicabcadam wrote:

why would your mate even bother getting an MOT ? you cant ride it as there's no insurance on it


Probably thought if it was expensive to MOT it wouldn't be worth insuring.


insurance can be cancelled free of charge if done within the first 2 weeks i think, minus 2 weeks worth of policy !

even if i am not 100& correct, scooter insurance must cost all of £20 a month ?

i doubt the guy was pushing it, we probably do not have the full story
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yambabe
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

colicabcadam wrote:

you also need to understand that most insurance companies will NOT allow you to collect a vehicle from a police pound !


Confused Can you expand on that a bit? I'm not sure what you mean.

How can an insurance company stop you from getting your vehicle released once you've made it legal?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

yambabe wrote:
He can insure it, and he can SORN it at the post office with his green slip from the V5.

He can then take the green slip, insurance cert, SORN confirmation and payment and the police should release it to him provided he turns up with a trailer or van to take it home with.

They won't let him ride it away or push it away with no MOT.

~~~ END OF THREAD ~~~

There's no point in him trying to get cute and no wiggle room in the statute. Well, technically because it wasn't being either mechanically propelled or pedalled, it wouldn't have been an offence for him to leg it, but they could still have seized it at the thrilling conclusion of the 2mph chase. Police

Presumably they're prosecuting him for being uninsured as well. What a muppet, although he surely knows that by now.


colicabcadam wrote:
you also need to understand that most insurance companies will NOT allow you to collect a vehicle from a police pound !

Is this "my mate says" again?

Looking at my Admiral certificate, which must be one of the most common around, "The Policy does not cover: Use to secure the release of a motor vehicle, other than the vehicle identified above by its registration mark, which has been seized by, or on behalf of, any government or public authority."

Let's see what my eBikeInsurance certificate has to say about that: "" (quoted in full).

To be fair, you may have been thinking of someone else trying to collect it for them using "other bike" (and it would need to be bike) cover on their certificate. So the advice would be "Read your actual certificate of insurance, don't take anyone's word for it that it will or won't be sufficient to get the trinket released".
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 22:57 - 06 Sep 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

colicabcadam wrote:

but as others have said, it is illegal to have a vehicle on the highway if it is uninsured and has no tax,


It needs to be insured to be used on the road. Arguing the definition of use would be a fun court case, although I understand the police view is that being parked doesn't count as being used.

All the best

Keith
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
It needs to be insured to be used on the road.

"driven": RTA 1988 164 (1) (a) and 165A (3) (a).

But as computid says, that has (I believe) been held to cover pushing, since "mechanically propelled" is listed separately. Still, I'm not 100% sure about the case law on that, it might be worth trying T.C, but I wouldn't hold out much hope.

I do feel sorry for the chap, he was likely trying to do the right thing while saving every penny. But sadly the system's not set up to reward good intentions, and that was an easy collar for plod. Sad
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 23:05 - 06 Sep 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 06 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mk1GSF wrote:
If you think that's bad, they could be funny about the lack of a helmet whilst being in control of it Laughing

Well, that would have been funny. Very Happy

The Motor Cycles (Protective Helmets) Regulations 1998.

4.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), every person driving or riding (otherwise than in a side-car) on a motor bicycle when on a road shall wear protective headgear.
(2) Nothing in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person driving or riding on a motor bicycle if—
(a)it is a mowing machine; or
(b)it is for the time being propelled by a person on foot.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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