On the spot fines: Parking, Speeding and Disorder

[addz8]

Hi All

I am a researcher at Keele University carrying out a study into the use of on the spot fines for parking, other motoring problems (speeding, tyres, con & use regs etc...) and fines that they now give out on a Friday and Saturday night for drunkeness, fighting etc...

I wondered if anyone would be interested in talking to me about their experience with these types of fines? It would consist of me asking you a series of questions over the telephone and only take about 30 minutes of your time.

If you have a story to tell or want to chat about your experience then please do contact me at a.j.snow@keele.ac.uk

Cheers
Adam

[CaNsA]

Can we not just post them here?

Oh and thanks for the new spam address

[addz8]

Hi

If the information is to be used in my final study then interview is the way forward.

I am carrying out a qualitative study, which means using interviews, focus groups etc. So I'm interested in actual experiences rather than the usual 'how many' type questions of surveys.

So looking at what people think and feel about receiving a ticket and how it has affected them. Which can't really be done on a forum, sorry.

It is a very short interview though, only 30 mins at a time to suit.

Cheers
Adam
____________________
Cheers

Adam

[Rogerborg]

Hi. Are there roving Magistrates out on the streets now? Or did we just bypass the justice system entirely and start handing out "Dredd" badges to all coppers?

"Fines"?

You should know better.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[addz8]

Hi Rogerborg

I'm not sure I understand your comment, fixed penalty notices (and other variants) (on the spot fines) are issued by police officers, PCSO's, local council officers, parking attendants and many others.

The magistracy becomes involved as this would be traditionally the place where such matters would have been resolved (although there is a point about something called 'net widening')

The magistracy do not issue the tickets / notices.

The last comment, I don't know if that was directed at me or society / legislature?
____________________
Cheers

Adam

[angryjonny]

[Redoko]

[map]

[stinkwheel]

[Rogerborg]

Oh, it's on.

If I put on a superhero outfit and went around handing out "penalty charges" for littering, is that a "fine"? Why not? I could bring a private criminal prosecution, just like any other individual.

What if I was employed by a council? I might enjoy some statutory powers to demand names and addresses, but that's it. In terms of enforcement, they still have to go via the courts.

Same for parking. Private goons have to go via civil suits, councils can go via kangaroo kourts like TPT, PATAS, or (I swear I am not making this up) SPAS, but there's still an "independent tribunal" between accusation and collection by force.

There is nothing that makes the police, the CPS or the Fiscal special in this regard. Zilch.

If you want to call what they hand out a "fine", then OK, so are parking tickets, or littering tickets, or superhero tickets.

But then what do you call it once it's been in front of a court or tribunal and you've been ordered to pay? A real-file? A super-fine?

Please don't dumb it down for us, it's an insult to the justice system and empowers costumed vigilantes far beyond their meagre limits.

And if you really believe that it's just a semantic issue, then you may want to "fine" Keele University to get your tuition fees back.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[addz8]

Hi All

I use the term on the spot fine to cover all types of fixed penalty notice. Unfortunately to use the term fixed penalty notice would muddy the waters since that covers Motoring FPN's plus council issued FPN's (litter, dog fouling, smoking, noise etc...)but wouldn't include Penalty notices for Disorder, parking charge notices, variable monetary penalties and fixed monetary penalties. So for ease and brevity I use 'on the spot fine' (even though they are not fines payable on the spot)

They all share a common theme, that is the opportunity to discharge liability for prosecution by payment of a sum of money. However what happens when you don't pay the fine depends upon the particular class of ticket (police issued = automatic registered fine) (Council issued = Council can prosecute you) (Parking well no real prosecution but civil debt recovery)

Cheers
Adam
____________________
Cheers

Adam

[Rogerborg]

Granted, the CJPA is a travesty of justice, but it doesn't do a complete end run around it.

[addz8]

I don't think this is the forum for me to engage in debate about the finer points of law and procedure on penalty notices.

I am not trying to dumb down the topic. I am trying to explain my project in layman's terms. So that people can make an informed choice as to whether they want to take part in the study, that is all.

What I am looking to examine is people's experience with the system, not to test people or assess their knowledge of the system.

All I ask is that if you would like to take part in the study please feel free to contact me. There are no right or wrong answers in the study, it is all about your own personal experience.

I have no view on the appropriateness or otherwise of this method of enforcement, that is one of the purposes of the study, to develop an understanding of these penalties and what they mean for the future direction of justice in England and Wales. (Because of the way the Scottish Legal system is structured it will not form part of my study.)

Cheers
Adam
____________________
Cheers

Adam

[stinkwheel]

[addz8]

Hi

There is no bias in the study since it is about the experience of receiving a penalty notice. Understanding or lack thereof is part of it. Indeed those who have gone down the court route is also part of the study, so if you have personally challenged a ticket at court please do get in touch.

Just to reiterate I am looking for participants to take part in the study not to debate the study in a forum or advice on what form the study should take. Thank you for your interest otherwise but I will now end my comments, feel free to continue to discuss the topic amongst yourselves.

But please if you feel passionately about the law relating to penalty notices and this is due to a personal experience then do get in touch and take part in the study.

Regards
Adam
____________________
Cheers

Adam

[keggyhander]

I'll make it very simple for the OP.

The experience of getting a FPN is pretty fucking unpleasant. You get stopped for speeding or whatever, and the little hitler then judges the cut of your jib via a bullshit "Attitude Test". They then go round your vehicle looking for anything else they can get you on. If they can't get you for a concrete wrongdoing they then slap you with a section 59 warning, lists of which are issued to patrol units so that as soon as one's plate matches said list, you are pulled again and your vehicle seized, for a cockamamie peccadillo such as "Harsh Acceleration".

At the end of the traffic stop, the otherwise law-abiding citizen is now made to feel as if he caused the sinking of the Titanic, the felling of the twin towers, and the near extinction of the domestic kitten.

In other words, getting stopped and ticketed is a bit shit.

[Andy_Pagin]

[Skudd]

Why have you chosen a Biklers forum? Do you think we are all law breaking......................... oh never mind.
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[Rogerborg]

[Marmalade]

According to wiltshire council it's a fine.

https://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/bramble43/wiltshirefines2.jpg
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