Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


5 Stroke Engine

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Random Banter Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

garth
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:34 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: 5 Stroke Engine Reply with quote

Did a quick search, couldn't see anything.

https://www.ilmor.co.uk/concept_5-stroke_1.php
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

karthead
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:06 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was doing a bit of research on this concept a while ago, but didn't really get the gist of it until now.

You reckon they will come into mass production in the near future? Or are they already being produced? I don't want to sound like an idiot, I cbf doing the research atm Wink
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Walloper
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:41 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

5 stroke my arse.
It's a four stroke with a 2nd cylinder used to absorb latent energy in the exhaust.
Double and Triple Expansion Steam engines were using the principle since the stone-age.

Rolling Eyes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine
____________________
W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

daemonoid
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:23 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
5 stroke my arse.
It's a four stroke with a 2nd cylinder used to absorb latent energy in the exhaust.
Double and Triple Expansion Steam engines were using the principle since the stone-age.

Rolling Eyes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine


Calm down, they're not claiming to have invented the wheel...

Quote:
The engine uses 100% conventional technology and so requires no new manufacturing techniques.


They're just putting some good techniques together and improving fuel consumption.
____________________
current: ducati monster 750
past: hyosung gt250r, bajaj pulsar 180, hyosung gt 125 comet
@thomasgarrard | www.straitjkt.com | www.racingseven.com
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Alpha-9
Super Spammer



Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:36 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly don't know what makes a 4 stroke a 4 stroke
What's so 4 about it?

Seriously, I don't know Razz
Actually, stop, wiki time.

intake, compression, power, and exhaust
oh okay

Mmmm wiki Drooling
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/4StrokeEngine_Ortho_3D_Small.gif

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/2-Stroke_Engine_ani.gif
Drooling
____________________
Fzr-600 1999
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Wave2k
G's Stalker



Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:25 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything that stops me paying through the nose for fuel and isnt electric is a good thing.
____________________
Ducati 1299 Panigale
2009 Corvette C6 z51
RS125->CBR400->RXS100->GSXR750K2->Ducati749S->CBR600RR5->TL1000R->DRz400->RSVR1000->Honda VTR SP1->CBR400->GSXR1000K6->Honda H100->CBR600RR3->Ducati1299
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:43 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, now that is interesting, thanks for the link.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Matt-
World Chat Champion



Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:58 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpha-9 wrote:
Honestly don't know what makes a 4 stroke a 4 stroke
What's so 4 about it?

Seriously, I don't know Razz
Actually, stop, wiki time.

intake, compression, power, and exhaust
oh okay

Mmmm wiki Drooling
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/4StrokeEngine_Ortho_3D_Small.gif

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/2-Stroke_Engine_ani.gif
Drooling


The way i was taught was

Suck , Squeeze , Bang , Blow Wink

(Induction,Compression,Power,Exhaust )

- Thank's for the link by the way, very interesting read Very Happy
____________________
RIP jack (wheelie king), you will never be forgotten.
Current Bike's - Road Legal TZR 125 Pitbike, Aprilia SR50R 2010
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Matt-
World Chat Champion



Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:01 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also found a very [bHELPFULL[/b] Website with video Thumbs Up

https://www.5-stroke-engine.com/en/Prinzip.html
____________________
RIP jack (wheelie king), you will never be forgotten.
Current Bike's - Road Legal TZR 125 Pitbike, Aprilia SR50R 2010
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Walloper
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:52 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
Walloper wrote:
5 stroke my arse.
It's a four stroke with a 2nd cylinder used to absorb latent energy in the exhaust.
Double and Triple Expansion Steam engines were using the principle since the stone-age.

Rolling Eyes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine


Calm down, they're not claiming to have invented the wheel...

Quote:
The engine uses 100% conventional technology and so requires no new manufacturing techniques.


They're just putting some good techniques together and improving fuel consumption.


I'm not critique-ing the theory but it isnae 'Five Stroke'.
If anything it's a Par.
____________________
W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

swampy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:39 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpha-9 wrote:
Honestly don't know what makes a 4 stroke a 4 stroke
What's so 4 about it?

Seriously, I don't know Razz
Actually, stop, wiki time.

intake, compression, power, and exhaust
oh okay

Mmmm wiki Drooling
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/4StrokeEngine_Ortho_3D_Small.gif

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/2-Stroke_Engine_ani.gif
Drooling


You realise the bottom pic is a 2 stroke don't you ?

The 'four' in four stroke refers to how often there is a power stroke in the cycle.. In a four stroke it's every fourth... In a two stroke, funnily enough, it's every second.
____________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S Thompson
"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death..." Hunter S Thompson
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

binge
Emo Kiddy



Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:49 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

swampy wrote:

The 'four' in four stroke refers to how often there is a power stroke in the cycle.. In a four stroke it's every fourth... In a two stroke, funnily enough, it's every second.



Sort of.

A 4 stroke has a power stroke every 2nd cycle.
A 2 stroke has a power stroke ever single cycle.





Ben


Last edited by binge on 18:01 - 26 Sep 2012; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

swampy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:00 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="binge"]
swampy wrote:

The 'four' in four stroke refers to how often there is a power stroke in the cycle.. In a four stroke it's every fourth... In a two stroke, funnily enough, it's every second.[/quote


Sort of.

A 4 stroke has a power stroke every 2nd cycle.
A 2 stroke has a power stroke ever single cycle.





Ben


Yes, but there are two strokes to a cycle Wink
____________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S Thompson
"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death..." Hunter S Thompson
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

binge
Emo Kiddy



Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:02 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends which way you want to look at it.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

swampy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:08 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

binge wrote:
Depends which way you want to look at it.


I concur mon frere, is only a matter of semantics Karma
____________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S Thompson
"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death..." Hunter S Thompson
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Ariel Badger
Super Spammer



Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:44 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a conventional four stroke but with an additional post combustion power and exhaust stroke. 4+2=6 stroke not 5!
____________________
Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

StevRS
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:49 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read a while back that Lotus were developing a modern direct injection 2-stroke with no need for fuel-oil mixing etc.

Here it is: https://www.lotuscars.com/gb/engineering/case-study-omnivore-research-engine

Variable compression ratio, less complex than a four stroke and given there's half the number of 'dead' strokes in a 2, presumably far more power than a four.
____________________
MV Agusta Brutale 800 RR, Unfinished 1978 XS250
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Amreet
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 31 May 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:01 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

StevRS wrote:
Read a while back that Lotus were developing a modern direct injection 2-stroke with no need for fuel-oil mixing etc.

Here it is: https://www.lotuscars.com/gb/engineering/case-study-omnivore-research-engine

Variable compression ratio, less complex than a four stroke and given there's half the number of 'dead' strokes in a 2, presumably far more power than a four.



I've seen references to direct injection two strokes in skidoo engines and stuff, rotax still manufacture big two stroke twins for snowmobile and jetskii engines, 800cc parallel twin direct injection twostroke, liquid cooled, tiny, light, mega Mr. Green
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Knightsy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:30 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, it seems like a decent idea. I'm curios to see if it takes off the ground though Thinking
____________________
09' Versys 650 | 07' FJR1300A
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Alpha-9
Super Spammer



Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:47 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

swampy wrote:

You realise the bottom pic is a 2 stroke don't you ?

The 'four' in four stroke refers to how often there is a power stroke in the cycle.. In a four stroke it's every fourth... In a two stroke, funnily enough, it's every second.

Yeppers, I like gifs, sexy. Makes more sense to me now Thumbs Up
____________________
Fzr-600 1999
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

0l0dom0l0
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:01 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Direct injection with 2 strokes has been messed about with a fiar bit now.

The principle being that the fuel can be injected when both ports are closed, so none is wasted out the exhaust until after it is burnt.

Porblem with the concept is, and also why its not taken off like a house on fire just yet is how do you lubricate the thing?

I thought about injecting oil straight into the crankcase, but it doesn't vaporize so you can't really.

Not a massive fan of that new engine though, but we'll see if it takes off.
____________________
CBT Passed: 30/08/2009, Theory Passed: 31/08/2010, Mod 1 Passed: 6/9/2010, Mod 2 Passed: 13/09/2010. Restriction ended 13/09/2012.

Bikes: 2007 Derbi GPR 50, 1998 Yamaha Fazer 600 (written off), 2002 Yamaha Fazer 600, 1994 CBR 600F, 2003 Triumph Daytona 600, Kawasaki ZX6R J1.....Current: 2006 Yamaha FZ6, 1998 Suzuki TL1000R and a Honda VFR 400 NC30.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Walloper
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:32 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

0l0dom0l0 wrote:
Direct injection with 2 strokes has been messed about with a fiar bit now.

The principle being that the fuel can be injected when both ports are closed, so none is wasted out the exhaust until after it is burnt.

Porblem with the concept is, and also why its not taken off like a house on fire just yet is how do you lubricate the thing?

I thought about injecting oil straight into the crankcase, but it doesn't vaporize so you can't really.

Not a massive fan of that new engine though, but we'll see if it takes off.


GM have been making 2 stroke Diesels for Donkey's. No issues with lubrication.
OK they use a supercharger to charge the cylinder/s with air though.
____________________
W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Amreet
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 31 May 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:53 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

0l0dom0l0 wrote:
Direct injection with 2 strokes has been messed about with a fiar bit now.

The principle being that the fuel can be injected when both ports are closed, so none is wasted out the exhaust until after it is burnt.

Porblem with the concept is, and also why its not taken off like a house on fire just yet is how do you lubricate the thing?

I thought about injecting oil straight into the crankcase, but it doesn't vaporize so you can't really.

Not a massive fan of that new engine though, but we'll see if it takes off.



If you look on the diagram, the direct injection means that the crank case is no longer used for pumping fuel vapour into the cylinders, so it runs a wet sump like a 4 stroke, pretty clever really.

I really hope this goes somewhere.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

cb1rocket
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:06 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amreet wrote:
0l0dom0l0 wrote:
Direct injection with 2 strokes has been messed about with a fiar bit now.

The principle being that the fuel can be injected when both ports are closed, so none is wasted out the exhaust until after it is burnt.

Porblem with the concept is, and also why its not taken off like a house on fire just yet is how do you lubricate the thing?

I thought about injecting oil straight into the crankcase, but it doesn't vaporize so you can't really.

Not a massive fan of that new engine though, but we'll see if it takes off.



If you look on the diagram, the direct injection means that the crank case is no longer used for pumping fuel vapour into the cylinders, so it runs a wet sump like a 4 stroke, pretty clever really.

I really hope this goes somewhere.



exactly how efficient would it be? The case is getting enough fresh fuel in without it going straight back out of the exhaust. I know back pressure helps on the exhaust side of things but will it be any better?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Walloper
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:40 - 28 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb1rocket wrote:
exactly how efficient would it be? The case is getting enough fresh fuel in without it going straight back out of the exhaust. I know back pressure helps on the exhaust side of things but will it be any better?


The engine in the '5-stroke' schematic has inlet and exhaust valves to control gas flow. So '2-stroke' characteristic of ports and back-pressure utilised to 'seal' the cylinder is not an issue.

It is NOT a 5 stroke engine. This is an advertising ploy. It is a four stroke engine with the addition of a 2nd piston and cylinder to use waste energy. (It says that in the blurp.)
A turbo charger would be a simpler solution.

I would be more interested if someone engineered a working Impulse Engine. That would be re-inventing the wheel.
____________________
W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 13 years, 86 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Random Banter All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.11 Sec - Server Load: 0.74 - MySQL Queries: 13 - Page Size: 136.45 Kb