Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Confusion about restricted license this week , and next year

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> New Bikers Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Damien1080
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 19 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:17 - 07 Oct 2012    Post subject: Confusion about restricted license this week , and next year Reply with quote

Hi BCF,

JUst confused as hell by these new laws coming in from next year, Im about to sit my resitricted tests this week and know currently it will restirct me to a 33bhp power limit etc, my question is with the new laws in january will i then be able to get the extra bhp allowance on my license or will i still be on 33bhp?

Just asking a si was giving the ninja 300 some serious thought and just want to know if its out of my league if so,

Thanks in advance!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Turkish
Crazy Courier



Joined: 09 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:23 - 07 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will be restricted to 33 bhp for 2 years.

The new system is completely different, with permanent license banding rather than the temporary restriction. Trust me, you don't want that.

If you're looking at the 300, I'm guessing it's going to be new. You could get them to chuck in a restrictor for you.
____________________
ZX-6R G2
CBR125R RW6
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

DonDino
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:59 - 07 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you pass before 19th January, you will be restricted to 33bhp (25kW) for two years. The new regulations won't affect you at all. At the end of two years you'll be able to ride any size bike.

Only if you pass a practical test *after* 19th January will the new rules affect you.

The general understanding is that anyone who will have passed a module 1 *before* 19th January but will pass a module 2 *after* 19th January will still be going by the old rules, although I have not seen any official confirmation of this anywhere.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:03 - 07 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

YOUR restricted licence if you pass will be a Full A =>33 for two years.
Any-one passing tests on a 125 from January will get an A1 group lience limiting them to a 125 'only' until they do another test to upgrade.
To get an 'restricted' licence past Jan, testing will have to be done on a 500, DAS style, and you will probably have to have held an A1 for two years before you are allowed to do the test.
That will give you an A2 licence entitlement, 45bhp restriction, but again, permenantly until you do another test to upgrade.

Full A+>33 is NOT the same as A2, despite DSA/DVLA mis-use of the terms... they are both 'Restricted' licences; but they are not teh SAME restricted licence group, and the entitlements are different.

Get an A+>33..... the entitlements are as awarded when you pass, they will NOT change.

Ie 33bhp for two years, then anything you like.

A2 regs will NOT apply.... be greatful... you are not being robbed of 12bhp, you are being given 17, AND saved two extra tests on bigger bikes DAS style over four years!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Damien1080
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 19 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:10 - 07 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mike- the perfect answer right there that managed to clear things up for me
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

thepuma
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:51 - 07 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ninja 300 falls within the 33bhp restriction already, you don't need to restrict it further.

I've been looking at that bike myself, cracking little bike, great looker for a small cc bike.
____________________
YBR125 (SOLD) - CBR250R(SOLD) - CBR650F(SOLD) Current - Street Triple
765 RS
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Damien1080
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 19 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:12 - 07 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

i keep seeing "Things change. As of 19th January 2013, new European A2 licensing laws will come into force in the UK. These will allow anyone with a restricted licence to ride a bike of up to 39bhp." can anyone shed some light on this?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:46 - 07 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damien1080 wrote:
i keep seeing "Things change. As of 19th January 2013, new European A2 licensing laws will come into force in the UK. These will allow anyone with a restricted licence to ride a bike of up to 39bhp." can anyone shed some light on this?

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS: 2012 No. 977 - ROAD TRAFFIC - The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 - AMENDMENT OF THE ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 1988 - SCHEDULE 3 - Regulation 4 - Amendment of the principal Regulations.......
wrote:
A2 motorcycle” means a motor bicycle of a power not exceeding 35 kilowatts, with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2 kilowatts per kilogram and not being derived from a vehicle of more than double its power


Thats what the statutory instrument says... I think that means its 'the law'..... A2 = 35Kw aprox 45bhp....

Also worth noting that the power restrictions offered in legislation are as measured to same standards as manufacturers quoted power; ie at the crank, not rear wheel rolling road numbers.

Just checked Snowie's licence, as it was easier than looking elswhere... yes she's still leaving it lying around for all to spot and comment upon now its 'pink'.....

Entitlement on the front simply states 'A' (k & p - road rollers or something & mopeds!)

Endorsement A=>25Kw is on the back with the pass date. Expiry of the 25Kw restriction is on the counterpart.

But was just checking the number, they do quote the power in Kw not bhp, and 25Kw works out near as makes no odds 33bhp.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Codemonkey
Crazy Courier



Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 06:33 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepuma wrote:
The Ninja 300 falls within the 33bhp restriction already, you don't need to restrict it further.

I've been looking at that bike myself, cracking little bike, great looker for a small cc bike.


Thats not correct, the Ninja 300 produces 39bhp/29kW so would need restricting. The Ninja 250R produces 33bhp/24kW.
____________________
Test Passed 10/05/2011 Current bike: XJ6-N
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:01 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonDino wrote:
The general understanding is that anyone who will have passed a module 1 *before* 19th January but will pass a module 2 *after* 19th January will still be going by the old rules

Dafuq did you get that from?

I can't imagine why you'd think that. There's nothing in the 2012 Act that mentions it, and it's nonsensical. Why would you expect to sit both modules on an A1 bike (under the 2013 rules) and get anything other than an A1 license?

If you want to get a 25kW license, do it before January.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

DonDino
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:23 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
DonDino wrote:
The general understanding is that anyone who will have passed a module 1 *before* 19th January but will pass a module 2 *after* 19th January will still be going by the old rules

Dafuq did you get that from?

I can't imagine why you'd think that. There's nothing in the 2012 Act that mentions it, and it's nonsensical. Why would you expect to sit both modules on an A1 bike (under the 2013 rules) and get anything other than an A1 license?

If you want to get a 25kW license, do it before January.


I got it from my instructor who'd mentioned it back in June/July. He told me that, talking with examiners and test centre managers back then, they told him that <<most likely>> the DSA would honour the old rules for anyone who'd already passed a module 1 before 19th January and took a mod2 after that date.

That's why I called it 'general understanding' and nothing more concrete than that.
I don't think it's nonsensical to believe the DSA would be kind enough to do this.
Perhaps not for A1, but it would not be stretching it to think this might be allowed if you took mod1 before 19/01 on an A bike, being over 21 years old, which would then become an A2 bike and give you an A2 license from 19/01 onwards - it's not unreasonable to think some leeway could be provided by the DSA.

In any case, I can now see that's not the case. They have published a table showing exactly how it would work if you took mod1 before 19/01 and mod2 after 19/01, it's around the middle of this page:

https://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/PracticalTest/DG_201147
____________________
First bike: CBF125, Feb. - Oct. 2012
Currently riding: ER-6N since Oct. 2012
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

thepuma
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:52 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Codemonkey wrote:
thepuma wrote:
The Ninja 300 falls within the 33bhp restriction already, you don't need to restrict it further.

I've been looking at that bike myself, cracking little bike, great looker for a small cc bike.


Thats not correct, the Ninja 300 produces 39bhp/29kW so would need restricting. The Ninja 250R produces 33bhp/24kW.


As of 19th Jan 13, anyone passing the restricted test is limited to 39bhp, so this bike fits in with that.
____________________
YBR125 (SOLD) - CBR250R(SOLD) - CBR650F(SOLD) Current - Street Triple
765 RS
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:21 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepuma wrote:
As of 19th Jan 13, anyone passing the restricted test is limited to 39bhp, so this bike fits in with that.


Yup... so you are still incorrect with your original answer Wink
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Cuchulain
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 14 May 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:46 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepuma wrote:


As of 19th Jan 13, anyone passing the restricted test is limited to 39bhp, so this bike fits in with that.


Only if you pass on a bike that is at least 400ccand between 39-47bhp (Or something)

If you take the test on a 125cc you are limited to rding 125cc bikes until you take the above test, or DAS.
____________________
CBT 15/6/2011 Theory Test Passed 6/2/2012 Module 1 Passed 11/6/2012
Module 2 Passed!!! 19/6/2012
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Codemonkey
Crazy Courier



Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:24 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepuma wrote:
As of 19th Jan 13, anyone passing the restricted test is limited to 39bhp, so this bike fits in with that.


But if you've already passed your test on a 125, you will still be restricted to 33bhp after Jan, you won't automatically be eligable to ride a bike with 39bhp, therefore looking at the Ninja 300 is all you'll be able to do (since you already passed your Mod 2) unless you want to either re-take your test or get it restricted. (I'm clarifying this since you posted that you were looking at them and I took that to mean you were interested in getting one).
____________________
Test Passed 10/05/2011 Current bike: XJ6-N
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

thepuma
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:33 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

##Paddy## wrote:
thepuma wrote:
As of 19th Jan 13, anyone passing the restricted test is limited to 39bhp, so this bike fits in with that.


Yup... so you are still incorrect with your original answer Wink


Yep, hands held up. Smile

When I'd looked at the sales bumf from Kawasaki one of its main selling points was that it fell within the limits of a restricted licence. I (foolishly) assumed it meant the current 33bhp restriction not the 2013 39bhp one.

Easy mistake-a Ta make-a
____________________
YBR125 (SOLD) - CBR250R(SOLD) - CBR650F(SOLD) Current - Street Triple
765 RS
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

tmf1423
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:49 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Me too Reply with quote

Yeah I'm in exactly the same position as you, really like the look of the ninja 300 and got my test on wednesday, so gutted to find out it'll be 39 bhp..

Do people think its an okay idea to restrict it, seeing as it's only like 6 bhp im losing? will I notice the difference etc?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:59 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: Me too Reply with quote

tmf1423 wrote:
Yeah I'm in exactly the same position as you, really like the look of the ninja 300 and got my test on wednesday, so gutted to find out it'll be 39 bhp..

Do people think its an okay idea to restrict it, seeing as it's only like 6 bhp im losing? will I notice the difference etc?


Err... the logic in my head says, Ninja 250 bang on 25Kw Ninja 300, under 35Kw.... why get 35Kw 300 and restrict it, when 250 ninja is out the crate complient?!? (and presumeably cheaper?)
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

tmf1423
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:10 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: Me too Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
tmf1423 wrote:
Yeah I'm in exactly the same position as you, really like the look of the ninja 300 and got my test on wednesday, so gutted to find out it'll be 39 bhp..

Do people think its an okay idea to restrict it, seeing as it's only like 6 bhp im losing? will I notice the difference etc?


Err... the logic in my head says, Ninja 250 bang on 25Kw Ninja 300, under 35Kw.... why get 35Kw 300 and restrict it, when 250 ninja is out the crate complient?!? (and presumeably cheaper?)



I do know what you mean, but the new ninja 300 is a vast improvement on the 250 from what I can see, I just don't think I could get the old 250 knowing that the new one is just round the corner, I have considered this and haven't ruled it out, but I'm just saying if I were to get the new 300, is it not worth getting it restricted for just 6 BHP etc?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:10 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonDino wrote:
In any case, I can now see that's not the case. They have published a table showing exactly how it would work if you took mod1 before 19/01 and mod2 after 19/01, it's around the middle of this page:

https://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/PracticalTest/DG_201147

Coolio, +1 Informative. Thumbs Up

Also... jibba jabba. Very Happy

Them, I mean, not you. Look at this:

Direct Gov spods wrote:
You might have to take your module 2 test on a lower sub-category of motorcycle if you pass your module 1 test before 19 January 2013.

_______"before" "after"
19 or under A2 A1
21 or over A2 A2
23 or under A A2


Derp. 19 year olds can't sit on an "A" bike at the moment, so presumably "before" A2 means a 125.

But "after" A2 is a higher category than "before" A2, which directly contradicts what they said: on the face of it, they're saying that 21 year olds can pass mod 1 on a 125 (under the current rules) and mod 2 on a 400cc++ bike (under the new rules) and get the new A2 license. Eh?

But 19 year olds can also sit new A2, so... why distinguish between 19 and 21? Why let someone get a higher category than their module 1 test pass would allow? We can't do that now.

And what about 21 year olds who pass mod 1 on an "A" bike? Is that what they meant to put? 21-23 year olds?

It's a clarification that raises more questions than it answers. So, about par for the course. Doh!

Good luck, anyone who's sitting next year, you're going to need it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

thepuma
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:20 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: Me too Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
tmf1423 wrote:
Yeah I'm in exactly the same position as you, really like the look of the ninja 300 and got my test on wednesday, so gutted to find out it'll be 39 bhp..

Do people think its an okay idea to restrict it, seeing as it's only like 6 bhp im losing? will I notice the difference etc?


Err... the logic in my head says, Ninja 250 bang on 25Kw Ninja 300, under 35Kw.... why get 35Kw 300 and restrict it, when 250 ninja is out the crate complient?!? (and presumeably cheaper?)


Is the 250 still going to be available new when the 300 is introduced?...seems a bit pointless for the sake of 50cc and 6bhp.
____________________
YBR125 (SOLD) - CBR250R(SOLD) - CBR650F(SOLD) Current - Street Triple
765 RS
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

DonDino
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:23 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Direct Gov spods wrote:
You might have to take your module 2 test on a lower sub-category of motorcycle if you pass your module 1 test before 19 January 2013.

_______"before" "after"
19 or under A2 A1
21 or over A2 A2
23 or under A A2


Derp. 19 year olds can't sit on an "A" bike at the moment, so presumably "before" A2 means a 125.

But "after" A2 is a higher category than "before" A2, which directly contradicts what they said: on the face of it, they're saying that 21 year olds can pass mod 1 on a 125 (under the current rules) and mod 2 on a 400cc++ bike (under the new rules) and get the new A2 license. Eh?

But 19 year olds can also sit new A2, so... why distinguish between 19 and 21? Why let someone get a higher category than their module 1 test pass would allow? We can't do that now.

And what about 21 year olds who pass mod 1 on an "A" bike? Is that what they meant to put? 21-23 year olds?

It's a clarification that raises more questions than it answers. So, about par for the course. Doh!

Good luck, anyone who's sitting next year, you're going to need it.


My head hurts Brick Wall

Also good luck to the instructors who will have to explain all this to possibly clueless teens...
____________________
First bike: CBF125, Feb. - Oct. 2012
Currently riding: ER-6N since Oct. 2012
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

tmf1423
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:34 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: Me too Reply with quote

thepuma wrote:
]


Is the 250 still going to be available new when the 300 is introduced?...seems a bit pointless for the sake of 50cc and 6bhp.


Don't know, but its not just 50cc i wouldn't mind if it was 250, it's the looks have an amazing improvement, which maybe some people think is ridiculous to get the latest model for that, but personally that's my opinion, and the bike itself isn't expected to be much more expensive than the current one. My original question is still unanwered though, does anyone know if it's possible or if it's ridiculous to restrict something down by 6 bhp, as comparing the two ninjas, the 300 looks so much better, along with many new features and specs.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:12 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: Me too Reply with quote

tmf1423 wrote:
the bike itself isn't expected to be much more expensive than the current one.

Which will put it at SV650 money. Heck, it won't be far off an ER-6f.


tmf1423 wrote:
My original question is still unanwered though, does anyone know if it's possible or if it's ridiculous to restrict something down by 6 bhp

Anything is possible. I very much doubt they'll do a custom ECU for a tiny and shrinking target market, but all you'd really need to do is to restrict the throttle travel slightly.

A local dyno place should be able to advise, although they may gouge you as much as fitting an FI kit: local bloke got mugged £180 for fitting a little blue plastic screw to his throttle. Pale
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

tmf1423
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:24 - 08 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: Me too Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Which will put it at SV650 money. Heck, it won't be far off an ER-6f.


True, but the insurance quotes for those bikes, restricted or not for me are through the roof, if allowed at all


Rogerborg wrote:

Anything is possible. I very much doubt they'll do a custom ECU for a tiny and shrinking target market, but all you'd really need to do is to restrict the throttle travel slightly.
A local dyno place should be able to advise, although they may gouge you as much as fitting an FI kit: local bloke got mugged £180 for fitting a little blue plastic screw to his throttle. Pale


Thanks for all the help, but could you just explain it in simpler terms for me? ECU I know is an engine restrictor, but what do you mean by FI? Is it just that someone paid a mechanic to restrict it and what he got back was the throttle being limited by a screw?

thanks
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 13 years, 113 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> New Bikers All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.23 Sec - Server Load: 1.9 - MySQL Queries: 13 - Page Size: 144.41 Kb