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| Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon
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 Posted: 11:33 - 11 Oct 2012  Post subject: KTM 200, looks good what do people think? |
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| Magnet |
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Magnet
Crazy Courier
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
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| Posted: 11:45 - 11 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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Looks rather tasty, but I think I would rather pay the extra for a er6n 
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| ukdiceman |
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ukdiceman
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| P. |
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P.
Red Rocket
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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Posted: 14:14 - 11 Oct 2012  Post subject: |
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| Quote: | These small capacity bikes seem quite expensive. A Honda CBR125 is £3,400, a Yamaha YZF-R125 is £4,300.
At £3,995 the 200 Duke is just £200 more than the 125 Duke and considering it's got 60% more displacement and at least 60% more thrills, I'd say it's a bargain. |
And a Honda CBR250 is £4100, Hyosyng GT250/R £3400/£3700, I cant find a price on the 250 Ninja.
Yeah... why not get a 500 or 650 commuter twin, they are hardly any more money?
I was looking at these the other day, with that exact question in mind, and the answer was..... NUMBERS
Buy prices are close, true, but do a complete cost of ownership exersize over a couple of years of every day commuter work, then the gap widens, quite significantly, and you might be able to run a CBR250 for the full term of its credit deal, to its first MOT and pay for it with what you're not spending on bus-fares. Go up to the bigger bikes, and you're bus fares may pay the HP and go someway towards fuel, but you are starting to pay for the privilege of owning the bigger bike.
I think that the class IS worth more attension, and people ought to consider the merit of a brand new 250 for getting to work, rather than going for something bigger just to massage the ego a bit.. or insisting that they are too expensive and muttering that you dont spend thousands on a brand new bike to save money, and go looking for clapped out thirty year old Super-Dreams or Kawasaki 305's, then moaning that spares are too expensive! These things aren't 'bikes' as we have come to know them; they are a tool, like an angle grinder; something to get the job done, and they can do it very well, and very cheaply, and a brand new one, is barely the price to buy of a second hand sports 600, and pence to run there-after. Under warranty, never been dropped or crashed, its hassle free, trouble free bus-fare beating travel..... and well, you could probably afford to spend a few hundred quid on a cheap 'old' bike for the week-end on a two-bike insurance policy, if you really want extra thrills.
With that kind of outlook; I think that they are all pretty tidy, useful machines, and practically the performance and ecconomy they offer is withing similar boundries. KTM looks good, and is light, GT250 looks big and is heavy; CBR250 is some where between.
On the names and the numbers, I think that Honda reputation would sway me towards the CBR, simply becouse they have more dealers that could service it up and down the country, and theres a known standard of dependability attached to teh brand.
Hyosung, is teh cheapest, but least well supported with poor reputation for dependability. KTM is a bit muddling, and I'd be wary of longer term every day reliability, though hope that as a departure into the realms of every-day road bikes they had worked hard to make this one durable.
For what they are, and what they can do, and what they cost, ultimately, its matter of personaly opinion what's 'best', and whether you value looks over performance, or performance over ecconomy, or convenience over anything.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
nimbA
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Posted: 15:49 - 11 Oct 2012  Post subject: |
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Mmm. Maybe, but I'm much happier on 500 than 250 or 300.
Why go for less bike than you want?
Only to save money.
If you want to save money, why go for a new bike?
If I were counting the pennies, the YBR250 was available up until last year, I'd keep my eyes peeled for that. That'll tide me over until there are used Inazumas on the market (and nobody else wanting them).
I'm bearing in mind that increasingly the young, relatively poor, newly qualified riders who'll be in the market for bikes like these will have got the appropriate license on an NC700S or at least a 500 twin. That's a big step back down.
Sure, it looks like a laugh, but not £4K worth.
I'm really struggling to see the market, unless it's as a 2nd or 3rd bike for fun, rather than as a main one.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Andrew122 |
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Andrew122
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| Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 03:29 - 12 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | Mmm. Maybe, but I'm much happier on 500 than 250 or 300. |
You have had a mini-fleet at your disposal, how often did you elect to use the 125 over the 300 or 250?
I know what you mean, and I DO appreciate being on my 750 over the tiddlers... most of the time....... used to get a bit wearing following newbs about thinking "Why am I wasting rubber squaring my tyres on this, when I dont go fast enough to get out of third gear!"......but, with the right mind-set, appreciating a bike for what it is, rather than deploring it for what its not, almost anything with an engine can still be 'fun'.
Even Snowies Chinky Cruiserette thing made me grin quite often.... usually when wafting past a petrol station (very, very slowly!) and thinking "Ha! £1.38 a litre and I don't need ANY!" I'll admit, it was very SMALL schadenfreude, but still!
| Rogerborg wrote: | Why go for less bike than you want?
Only to save money. |
Well you can only save it, if you have it...... there's the first incentive.
How often on here do we see people buying more bike than they need to fulfil their 'wants' and then struggling to keep it maintained?
| Rogerborg wrote: | If you want to save money, why go for a new bike? |
Back to the number crunching, and having the money to be able to save money. Brand new, can make them easier to buy than a second hand bike.
Easy credit for one; possible trade in another. No cash and a clapped out CG after your test? Well, ride into a dealers, get £500 trade in off the CG as the money down, sign on the line for £80 a month interest free, ride out. No hassle selling your bike, dealing with tyre kickers, then having no bike to go trudge round bikes in the classifieds, and worrying how to get them home.
Yeah, the dirty word 'Depreciation', bike looses 30% of its sticker value moment you wheel it out the showroom door, but thats only an influence if you intend selling it moment you wheel it out teh showroom door!
Ride the damn thing, the reason we presume you'd buy it, and you get the value from its use; and brand new, suggests it ought to be a long time before you need worry about buying new tyres or chain & sprockets, brake pads or other annoying incidentals like replacing bulbs or shock-absorbers or forks seals. Heck, dont even have to take it for an MOT for three years!
Three years? Could be the life of the credit deal, and all in, bike paid for by what you would have spent on bus fares, and you have effectively a 'free' bike, worth whatever it might sell for with its first MOT cert fresh in your hand.
| Rogerborg wrote: | If I were counting the pennies, the YBR250 was available up until last year, I'd keep my eyes peeled for that. That'll tide me over until there are used Inazumas on the market (and nobody else wanting them) |
Yes, second hand could be cheaper, IF you are canny, and can buy young enough that depreciation has left market value a smaller % of sticker price than the mileage has worn out useful 'life'....
But you have to be pretty cute to find those savings, and lucky enough to find a bike that will do it, AND have the hard cash in your pocket up-front.
| Rogerborg wrote: | I'm bearing in mind that increasingly the young, relatively poor, newly qualified riders who'll be in the market for bikes like these will have got the appropriate license on an NC700S or at least a 500 twin. That's a big step back down. |
Hmmm... yeah, sort of... BUT.... what did you learn to drive a car in?
Me? 1987, it was a D-Reg (brand-new) Ford Fiesta 1.6 Ghia.... I spent twelve hours behind the wheel with my driving instructor.
What was my first car? A 1957 Morris Minor, a year later when I had saved up enough to buy it.
Similar story for most; my best mate, who I STILL havent forgiven for passing is driving test a week before me, despite his birthday being three weeks after mine, as test center cancelled my test appointment due to bad weather...... he learned to drive in his Dad's 3-year old VW Passat... his first car was a ten year old Escort 11oo.
And similar story for most of my mates learning to drive 25 odd years ago, in mummy or daddy or driving school cars, then when they could afford it buying old bangers as all we could afford.
Its not a huge leap; and after shelling out to do a Riding Course, on a 'big-bike' a 250 is still a step up from a 125 or even just 'nothing'!
So the 'come-down' is really only pscycological.
| Rogerborg wrote: | Sure, it looks like a laugh, but not £4K worth. |
Hmmm... I would tend to agree with you. I walked away from a very tasty Super-Black-Bird two years ago for that money. Might be one of the worlds fastest production bikes and a very accomplished all-round super-sporting tourer... but... £4K.... nope I couldn't rationalise 170mph as 4K's worth of fun..... so there is no way that I can rationalise an 80-90mph tiddler as justifying £4K of fun!
BUT, I CAN rationalise one as £4K's worth of work-horse earning its keep getting some-one to work and back..... And any fun it offers beyond that a bit of a bonus!
| Rogerborg wrote: | I'm really struggling to see the market, unless it's as a 2nd or 3rd bike for fun, rather than as a main one. |
I think its the other way round Rog... I CAN see the market for these; and we see it here when newbs start asking about 125's as cheaper than car commuter fare, or youngsters ask about good first bikes to get to and from college.
As a 'main-bike' they actually make more sense than anything else. They are earning thier keep, being cheap and dependable and hopefully hassle free.
The bread and butter winning, get to work and dont have to make an excuse to the boss for turning up an hour late covered in oil, transport 'needs' fullfilled, for minimum money/hassle.... then you can go think about having fun with the jam earned in the over time, you can do in the time you aren't spending trying to DIY service the bike!
Fifteen years ago, when the ex passed her car test and moaned that she needed wheels to ferry kids about..... I was breaking myself to afford to keep the VF1000 on the road so I could leave the car behind for her, AND afford to put the petrol she wanted in it.
Back to where we started; one of these things might not be the bike I WANTED, but, trying to fit in work/family/play balence, something like one of these COULD play a pretty useful role for many people, if we gave them more credit and didn't dismiss them so readily.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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P.
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| nowhere.elysium |
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nowhere.elysium
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| BigJoe78 |
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BigJoe78
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| Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 81 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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