Implementing vehicle excise duty into petrol costs

[krarkol]

Me and my dad were having a discussion earlier about VED and about it not being accurate as such.

The more polluting your vehicle is, the more tax you pay, but in my opinion someone commuting daily in their 1 litre car is going to give off a lot more emissions than someone who uses their petrol guzzling 5 litre v8 once a week so why should the person with the bigger car pay more VED for emissions than the person giving off more?

The sensible solution to this would be scrap VED and just put petrol prices up slightly. If you use your car/bike often, you pay more as a result. Use it less and you pay less.

The only reason I can think that they haven't done this already is they pretty much know how much money they are guaranteed from the current vehicles paying their VED.

Whats your opinion on this guys?

[fatpies]

It is sensible and efficient.

Which to a politician and civil servant is an instant non starter.

Therefore it would never get off the ground.
____________________
"It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one"

[U_W v2.0]

with all the raging on fuel prices, increasing them like that would be open to backlash.

however, if you where to say pay a VED of £10 per year if your bike is under 3 years old then once it requires an mot you could be charged on a rate worked out by your yearly mileage.

edit: it might also get some crazy ass people off the roads during school runs and parents might make their kids use the bloody bus instead, or encourage car pooling.
____________________
BCF's biggest cunt list: Cansa, Pits, Rob

[krarkol]

That could also be a good method.

Obviously it wouldn't benefit people who ride 125's as they could end up paying a fair bit more than the current £16.

[keggyhander]

Short answer:

You'd be subsidising the wagons.

In my opinion it should be on the amount of physical space and weight you take up, not what your engine does.

[U_W v2.0]

[krarkol]

keggyhander, thats a good point but it still ends up being pretty much the same as smaller engined vehicles usually end up smaller anyway apart from things like caterhams etc....

Usually_wrong, that would probably work but it would probably be too much work for those up top. We all know they prefer to have blanket limits on things rather than individually assessing stuff. Road speed limits being a big example

[Rogerborg]

I can't really think of any good reason for it. It'd be pennies on a litre, just skip the "fuel duty escalator" again and it's a wash.

Given the grief that VED causes to so many people every year, it looks like a no brainer politically. There would be winners and losers, but the big losers won't typically be paying for their fuel out of their own pockets anyway. Sure, the hauliers would whinge, but when don't they?

As a bonus, the DVLA would lose the V and half the staff. Bad news for Swansea, but it's not like they're ever going to vote Tory or Lib anyway. Like all the barbarians at the fringes of the Empire, they're spongers who will vote for the party that promises the biggest handouts.

So... dunno. Why not indeed?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Polarbear]

It's just a tax, no more, no less. We have to tax big cars to save the rain forests

Just like saying we have to tax cigarettes to stop you smoking. Utter bollox and an excuse to tax.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Turkish]

It's not just about money.

Consider a GSXR 600 and a newish 1.25 Ford Fiesta. Currently £55 vs £100 for tax, with similar fuel economy (gixxer is slightly better).

Assuming both drivers commute the same distance, do you think they should pay the same? I don't.

I think VED should also be about congestion and wear and tear of the road surface.
____________________
ZX-6R G2
CBR125R RW6

[Easter Bunny]

VED should always relate to the amount of space your vehicle takes up and the damage it does to the road (ie weight)

The problem with adding it to fuel duty is the tax disc is a very visible sign that your car should be legal, foreign drivers current pay nothing to use our roads with many foreign trucks & vans getting extra large fuel tanks to avoid having to refuel in this country.

My wifes Audi A1 currently costs nothing to tax (I believe until its 3 years old) yet my bike cost £76.
____________________
The light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train!

[Kickstart]

Hi

While I can understand the idea that it should relate to congestion or road damage, this is nothing like the case now. You can get a car with zero VED which causes massively more damage than any bike.

Adding it to fuel duty is easy, cheap and saves a load of pointless bureaucracy.

With online checks of MOT, insurance, etc, a tax disk is pretty much pointless as a way of showing a vehicle as being legal.

The DVLA costs something like half a billion pounds a year to run. Much of that could be saved by doing away with VED.

The only people who potentially could suffer would be those in extreme rural areas.

If they wanted to avoid hitting hauliers too much then that could be done by fiddling with the VAT rate as well.

Bikes would probably do quite well out of it given how tiny the annual milaege is of the average bike compared to the average car.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Turkish]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Trouble with having any minor level of VED left means the chance of a large saving in bureaucracy has gone, plus in a few years is pretty much certain to mean the level of VED goes back up without the fuel duty coming down.

As there is pretty much zero relation between road damage and the amount paid in the current system, we are not really losing anything in this area by switching the tax onto fuel.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Nexus Icon]

While we're at it we could add a penny a litre to cover 3rd party insurance too. That way no one could ride/drive untaxed and uninsured. Obviously more comprehensive policies could still be bought privately.
____________________
Greetings from Shitsville!

[iooi]

[st3v3]

[karoshi]

Anything that brings in taxation or charges on a "per mile" basis of any kind is both a massively bad idea and (thankfully) unworkable.

Unworkable because within weeks of implementation there will be a growing percentage of people actively working to deceive whatever mileage counting method is being used.

Massively bad idea because any method I can think of for calculating or recording your mileage has (what I consider at least) to be really bad connotataions for the future..

"Black box" attached to vehicle electronics? well, now we know how many miles you do, and when, and how fast.. 31mph in a 30 zone last week sir, well that's three points.. speeding four times this week sir, well your insurers want to talk to you about your premiums now they can prove your disgusting attitude towards the law..

No black box on the vehicle, no problem we'll just need to rubber-stamp the proposal for 100% cctv coverage..


I would - probably - support a small increase to fuel replacing VED as this is the least problematic way to tax "per mile" provided there were agreed caps to the maximum increase possible, an engine size dependant scale - e.g. 0.1p/Litre increase per 100cc, and also some exemption scheme to remove the extra tax on fuel used in vehicles that are classed as tax-exempt under the current system.
____________________
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it. - Elwood P. Dowd

[karoshi]

..and even that's dodgy idea as I'd end up having to fill the 15Gallon long-distance tank on my early 70s Honda Cub up every day
____________________
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it. - Elwood P. Dowd

[daemonoid]

[Turkish]

[keggyhander]

Let's be honest about the real reasons for wanting rid of road tax:

1. Feels like giving money for nothing

2. Makes you have to fuck about geting it MOT'd.

3. Having to stand in front of a middle-aged jobsworth in the post office who passes judgement on your driving documents.

Thank fuck for online tax.

[fatpies]

[Polarbear]

[Baisemontchou]

Guernsey and Jersey already have this - no tax disks, 10p per litre was added to fuel to cover Motor Tax in 2008, it's now 14p per litre in Guernsey (not sure about Jersey).

Saved a lot of faffing around getting tax disk renewed and as a biker with an extremely uneconomical car (14mpg) which I rarely use it's saved me £600 since 2008 in Motor Tax.

We have to display an insurance disk (which is square), instead of a Tax disk, which has had a positive impact on the number of convictions for driving without insurance, down by 50% if the figures are to be believed.

https://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45326000/jpg/_45326355_car_ins_disc08.jpg
____________________
Current Carz: Jeep Liberty, Kia Sorrento Diesel
Current Bikz: '06 Honda Shadow 750 Custom, '02 Sachs Roadster 650, '10 Yamaha R125, '12 Derbi GPR 50, '04 Yamaha TZR 50.