NMW again & Ford

[daemonoid]

Looks like there's bad news at Ford:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-20094571

Amongst the reasons are the national minimum wage £4 in Turkey vs £6.19 in the UK. We had a big discussion about NMW a few weeks back, this is very much a counter point to the opinion that the NMW was too low - having a high minimum wage has a direct influence on the number of jobs available.

It's a difficult situation to be in, but it shows the pressures faced in setting a minimum wage in a global economy.
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@thomasgarrard | www.straitjkt.com | www.racingseven.com

[Raffles]

[fatpies]

Its not about the number of £s.

Its about the purchasing power of those £s.

In the UK the purchasing power of the £ is bog all.

In Turkey I'd hazard a guess that £4 has more purchasing power than £6 in the UK. So its not that simple. Like guys in India who make £4000 a year. They have considerably better standards of living than some bloke in the UK on £18K.

And if they are being paid more in terms of purchasing power. Of course they'll work harder.
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"It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one"

[daemonoid]

[D O G]

There was fuck all going on at the Southampton plant.

I cycle past it regularly, nothing is ever happening and the carparks were empty.

Prime piece of real estate for redevelopment into a buiness park for industry more suited to the sort of people the UK has - very close to the Uni too.

[pinkyfloyd]

In other news the UK is officialy out of Recession!

Go tell that to those 1400 people who's just had their jobs axed Mr Macaroon.



My heart goes out for the guys losing their jobs.

Trouble with NMW is it has to reflect the cost of living and because the cost of living keeps increasing then the NMW has to increase to cover it or more people will rely on the already flawed benefits system.

Wont go into the benefits as its been done to death but in a climate thats costing a small fortune just to survive it is no wonder big companies, like Ford, are going elsewhere, where labourers are cheaper.

The NMW is a godsend as I remember what it was like before the NMW and I was working for buttons. If it wasnt for the NMW many familys would not survive. Especially when you consider the energy companies are hiking up their costs. EDF is hiking up their supply cost by 11%, well over the rate of inflation. Considering their company saw operating profits for 2011 were £5.1Bn.

The NMW helps people on low paid jobs survive. If it wasnt for this then Joe Soap would be working in his local newsagents for £3 an hour, Lucy Lastic the watiress would be relying on tips to top her £3.50 the hotel pays her to work until midnight.

Personally I'm all for the NMW.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[Polarbear]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^AGREE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Those fuckers in power who allow people to work for pennies and then tax them too the hilt need a reality check on how hard it is to survive nowadays.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[daemonoid]

[D O G]

[Polarbear]

Of course there are places in the world that are worse, lots of them. But to be honest they aren't my problem or anyone elses in this country. (except politicians)

I can understand the argument against the minimum wage, but I don't trust companies enough to do without it. Also, if we didn't have it, we would be screwed with the government having to make up their wages to a level where they can at least live. There would be the relative drop in taxation and we would still have to keep finding money top fund improtant things like NHS, education and the MP's expenses.

Even if there was no minimum wage, the 'lots of jobs' is never going to return. We are a service industry nation now, not a manufacturing one.

I lived on the dole, on £33 pounds a week, in an old campervan for a while when I was in my late 20's after losing my job. It isn't cushy by any stretch of the imagination.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[fatpies]

[daemonoid]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Personally I am all for the NMW, although at what level is another question. It should be at a rate where there is no extra tax assistance needed (ie, why should tax be used to subsidise someone to make a profit employing someone), but the problem is we have allowed the cost of living to get to the point where that isn't really possible. It has taken 10~15 years to get into this problem so a similar time period to get out of it wouldn't be unbelievable.

Trouble is that a lot of the cost of living is down to ability to pay. Ie, housing costs which have got ludicrous (they did the same in the late 1980s, but that was fixed by a crash in house prices and a load of repossessions). Further we have living expenses which depends on the pay of others, hence as they earn more our costs of living increase even further. And as more tax subsidies are required a higher tax take is required meaning yet further demands on pay.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[smegballs]

I think it's a balance between business interests and employee protections. I agree that employees should be protected in some ways, go too far though and it actually makes life worse for the people at the bottom of the food chain.

Make it too hard to fire people, and employees will simply stop hiring. Or at least be super-selective in who they employ. It's been interesting in our business studies module at uni; it seems the current financial climate is a bit like a accelerated darwinism for companies. You have to be the best, most efficient to survive; lag behind and you go under...

[Kickstart]

Hi

As a small point, wonder how many of the Ford staff at the Transit plant are on NMW. My guess would be VERY few.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[daemonoid]

[Im-a-Ridah]

Just to make it clear...

I'm absolutely in favour of the NMW.

Also I skim read the thead....!

[daemonoid]

[Rogerborg]

[daemonoid]

[Im-a-Ridah]

[Kickstart]

Hi

To be fair we do actually make a fair bit. Although not so much for consumer products. Rolls Royce aero engines and a fair few aerospace items for example. But those things are probably items where build labour costs and their effect on the final sales price isn't that important compared to the running costs of the final product in use (ie, with aero engines there have been cases of makers giving them to airlines, making their money on the next 20 years worth of spares and support).

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[D O G]

[Rogerborg]

[daemonoid]