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| ocatoro |
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ocatoro
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 Posted: 15:00 - 28 Oct 2012  Post subject: people's problem with scooters |
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not a dig, or a lecture or anything of that nature...
just genuine question. what is people's problem with scooters?
is it that they are small and slow? or the people who ride them? or what?
i don't mind them to be fair. i'm half an italian though so it may be genetic  they get the job done though don't they?
____________________
CBT - 17/09/12 * Theory - 23/10/12 * Mod1 - 05/03/13 * Mod2 - 25/03/13 * BOSH!
Current - None  but shed project H100 (first bike  )
Past - ER5, '93 ZZR600, '92 CB400 SF, ZZR600 (again), yellow Monster 620, Blackbird - black Monster 620ie - '96 ZZR600 |
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J.M.
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Efes123
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Ayrton
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recman
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Bezzer
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Posted: 15:11 - 28 Oct 2012  Post subject: |
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It's not the scooters it's the nobs that ride them, 90% of those you see are 'peds and 90% of their riders are dickheads so it tars all scooters with the same brush.
I'm waiting to see one of our local ped bois parked up to ask him why he always rides round the estate on his automatic scooter dipping the throttle as he "accelerates" as if he's going up through a gearbox  One good thing is that most never move on to bigger machines and are just passing the time until they can drive a car.
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| Cheeseybeaner |
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Cheeseybeaner
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| Posted: 15:13 - 28 Oct 2012 Post subject: Re: people's problem with scooters |
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| ocatoro wrote: | not a dig, or a lecture or anything of that nature...
just genuine question. what is people's problem with scooters?
is it that they are small and slow? or the people who ride them? or what?
i don't mind them to be fair. i'm half an italian though so it may be genetic they get the job done though don't they? |
Because they aren't the same as proper motorbikes really I suppose?
In most ways they're pretty restricted by virtue of their design which is seemingly intended more to make them amenable to car drivers than the sort of people who ride bikes and get their hands dirty.
They have small wheels and a funny chassis that doesnt give much to stability or speed and you put your feet where the engine is supposed to be!
Not only that but most of them have automatic 'gears' (variators I know) and seem intended for people who don't appreciate/cant manage or handle/like the rigours of what riding a motorbike should involve - using the clutch, balancing throttle and gear changes etc and using both brakes independently.
In most ways they are tamer and softer than 'proper' framed motorbikes and take away a lot of the riding experience you get with a bike.
Other than that I can see they have advantages in terms of storage, economy and practicality for the sort of people who use them but for someone who likes riding motorbikes I dont see the appeal of a sanitised and clean version.
They're like 'motorcycling lite' for people who don't appreciate the finer technical aspects of bikes and riding them.
I don't want an automatic clutchless motorbike with funny wheel sizes, a shared braking system and the engine in the wrong place!
Yuck!
Last edited by Cheeseybeaner on 15:16 - 28 Oct 2012; edited 1 time in total |
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ocatoro
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| Posted: 15:16 - 28 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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| barrkel |
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barrkel
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| Posted: 15:26 - 28 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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| J.M. wrote: | Generally that they (as in mopeds):
- Are noisy, with a high-pitch annoying sound
- Are ridden around stupidly by 16 year olds who think they're the bees knees |
Most scooters aren't 50cc flies though. I think in part it comes down to an urban / rural divide. Scooters make substantially more sense in built up areas, and a lot less sense on country roads at NSL. I'd guess there are about as many scooters as motorbikes on the streets of London, if not more, while 50cc mopeds are vanishingly rare - if you didn't leave London, you'd hardly know they existed.
So if you don't live in London or a similar large conurbation, your perception is coloured by kids riding mopeds because they can't ride anything else, and if you ever did ride one, you'd know their severe limitations on the roads you regularly ride (i.e. country NSL roads). You develop a contempt based on the typical rider and limited machine.
And I think that perception leaks into people who commute into London too. But if you live within the M25, I think the perception is different - scooters are much better adapted to the environment.
There's also the lifestyle choice vs utility divide. Riding a bike in the country at large is not usually the optimum - a car usually makes more sense if you were to look at it logically and ignore any pleasure value from riding itself. But going on two wheels in the city makes loads of sense even if it was no more pleasurable than driving a car or sitting on the bus. It's faster, can go more places, parking is way more available and cheaper, congestion mostly doesn't matter. The mere utility value is high. And for people who value the utility more than the pleasure, they're likely to make do with a scooter rather than a geared bike. And thus presumably the riders of these vehicles aren't "real" bikers, because they're not giving up much, they're not making sacrifices for the sake of the lifestyle choice.
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symonh2000
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| ocatoro |
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ocatoro
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| Posted: 15:40 - 28 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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whats the crack with those ones like that where the middle is blocked off?
to me that ruins some of the practicality of it having seen italian folk carry dogs, watermelons, children.... all sorts in that bit
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CBT - 17/09/12 * Theory - 23/10/12 * Mod1 - 05/03/13 * Mod2 - 25/03/13 * BOSH!
Current - None but shed project H100 (first bike )
Past - ER5, '93 ZZR600, '92 CB400 SF, ZZR600 (again), yellow Monster 620, Blackbird - black Monster 620ie - '96 ZZR600 |
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ocatoro
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| Posted: 15:53 - 28 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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ahh ok. but if theres 2 helmets under the chair, and fuel tank up front.....
where's engine 
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CBT - 17/09/12 * Theory - 23/10/12 * Mod1 - 05/03/13 * Mod2 - 25/03/13 * BOSH!
Current - None but shed project H100 (first bike )
Past - ER5, '93 ZZR600, '92 CB400 SF, ZZR600 (again), yellow Monster 620, Blackbird - black Monster 620ie - '96 ZZR600 |
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| Cheeseybeaner |
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Cheeseybeaner
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| Posted: 15:56 - 28 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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| barrkel wrote: | | J.M. wrote: | Generally that they (as in mopeds):
- Are noisy, with a high-pitch annoying sound
- Are ridden around stupidly by 16 year olds who think they're the bees knees |
Most scooters aren't 50cc flies though. I think in part it comes down to an urban / rural divide. Scooters make substantially more sense in built up areas, and a lot less sense on country roads at NSL. I'd guess there are about as many scooters as motorbikes on the streets of London, if not more, while 50cc mopeds are vanishingly rare - if you didn't leave London, you'd hardly know they existed.
So if you don't live in London or a similar large conurbation, your perception is coloured by kids riding mopeds because they can't ride anything else, and if you ever did ride one, you'd know their severe limitations on the roads you regularly ride (i.e. country NSL roads). You develop a contempt based on the typical rider and limited machine.
And I think that perception leaks into people who commute into London too. But if you live within the M25, I think the perception is different - scooters are much better adapted to the environment.
There's also the lifestyle choice vs utility divide. Riding a bike in the country at large is not usually the optimum - a car usually makes more sense if you were to look at it logically and ignore any pleasure value from riding itself. But going on two wheels in the city makes loads of sense even if it was no more pleasurable than driving a car or sitting on the bus. It's faster, can go more places, parking is way more available and cheaper, congestion mostly doesn't matter. The mere utility value is high. And for people who value the utility more than the pleasure, they're likely to make do with a scooter rather than a geared bike. And thus presumably the riders of these vehicles aren't "real" bikers, because they're not giving up much, they're not making sacrifices for the sake of the lifestyle choice. |
Having seen the way London scooter riders ride I dont think the problem is with the perception of 16 year olds on 50cc twist and go's at all.
They tend to be ridden by people who don't have the technical appreciation of bikes, who are too lazy or inept to deal with the intricacies of things like gears and clutches and whose whole approach to it is non-committed.
Coupled with that their road sense and lack of basic courtesy is unbelievable too.
They're a totally different breed of people to those who ride motorbikes (and take roadcraft and riding skills seriously), riding a scooter is a practicality rather than a choice or something to be enthusiastic about and involved in.
Its motorbiking lite for people who can't be bothered! They're lazy, sloppy, restrictive things which may be good on practicality in some areas but in terms of riding experience they're for people who don't like riding!
I rode one while on holiday, for the practical use value it was nice and I can see the attraction - but compared to any half decent motorbike the riding experience fun factor just isn't there. They just make it too simple and uninvolving! |
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ocatoro
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| Posted: 16:14 - 28 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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holy shit. must be a dick to work on them all crammed into such small spaces no?
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CBT - 17/09/12 * Theory - 23/10/12 * Mod1 - 05/03/13 * Mod2 - 25/03/13 * BOSH!
Current - None but shed project H100 (first bike )
Past - ER5, '93 ZZR600, '92 CB400 SF, ZZR600 (again), yellow Monster 620, Blackbird - black Monster 620ie - '96 ZZR600 |
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WillOdling
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barrkel
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Posted: 16:59 - 28 Oct 2012  Post subject: |
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| Cheeseybeaner wrote: | Having seen the way London scooter riders ride I dont think the problem is with the perception of 16 year olds on 50cc twist and go's at all. |
London scooter riders aren't an undifferentiated mass; you can divide them up in different ways. There's people on L-plates, and people without; I'd guess, based on their riding style and gear, that a fair proportion of those without L-plates also have a geared bike. Maybe half of all scooters on the road in London have L-plates - I think the proportion has been coming down over the years, in 2008 I would have put the proportion more like 75%. Scooter riders without L-plates are generally fairly skilled, non-dangerous, etc., unless they're on vintage Vespas / Lambrottas on summer weekends, in which case they're a hazard.
Of the people with L-plates, some are learners of varying skill; some are knowledge boys who only have a CBT on their path to a taxi license - these guys are generally either looking at street signs or at the huge board in front of them, they're a mobile hazard; some are young lads with something to prove, a bit like the 50cc riders elsewhere. Many are tradespeople getting from A to B, utilitarian riders no better or worse than the average white van man. A fair few are bus and train drivers, have a peek inside a bus garage, there's generally a big line of scooters parked up inside - they know the best way to get around the city.
| Cheeseybeaner wrote: | They tend to be ridden by people who don't have the technical appreciation of bikes, who are too lazy or inept to deal with the intricacies of things like gears and clutches and whose whole approach to it is non-committed. |
This is the utility vs lifestyle thing I alluded to. I agree, but it's not a moral division like you seem to imply. Some people just aren't interested, and that's OK. Most drivers aren't "committed" to their cars in the way we are with bikes either. It's not an excuse to look down on such drivers.
| Cheeseybeaner wrote: | I rode one while on holiday, for the practical use value it was nice and I can see the attraction - but compared to any half decent motorbike the riding experience fun factor just isn't there. |
The fun-factor is definitely there for me in London. Scooters are relatively limited in their performance envelope, it's a bike you can actually ride close to its limits every day, sunshine or rain. You can't say that about most big bikes. The city has a fair amount of 90+ degree corners that are challenging to take cleanly (not cutting corners etc.) even at 30mph, and the risk is fairly low when you're not doing stupid things filtering.
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Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 137 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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