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carlosthejack...
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PostPosted: 19:41 - 30 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole saga has left me feeling very confused. On the one hand, as was said before, they were all at it, so the playing field was level. It in no way makes it right, but Armstrong still had to ride the bike. Hard. For seven years. And a lot of it was after he'd had a devastating metastasal cancer. To survive that in itself is incredible, but to then go on and achieve what he did, not only in cycling but with the foundation is beyond unbelievable. The fact that he did what he did, drugs or no drugs is beyond comprehension.

However, if he did do it, and continues to deny it, it makes him a lesser man in my eyes. He can't now admit it though, he's gone beyond that, his admission now with all those denials would make him look like an idiot. Although if he was man enough to admit to complicity, I would find a whole new respect for him.

I've read the Reasoned Decision from USADA, and it's pretty damning. However (there's always an however), there remains no proof of anything. There's only witness testimony, and some of the video interviews I've seen (especially Tyler Hamilton) and less than convincing. Yet he's been hung, drawn and quartered by the UCI, an organisation who themselves have been considered corrupt in the extreme by many involved in the sport.

Lance Armstrong has been an inspiration for a lot of people, myself included, for many years. Not, perhaps, the nicest of people, but driven, and a survivor of a devastating and often fatal illness. The inevitable backlash is very sad, and a lot of people are bandwagon jumping, despite the work that has helped countless people over the last decade plus.

I'm not convinced of anything, either way, I remain confused, and very very sad over the whole sordid affair.
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 30 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not confused, all his good was done on the back cheating and he's a cunt. I'm so glad I only ever read a few pages of his books.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 00:21 - 31 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

carlosthejackal wrote:
Stuff


Covdude has nailed it, pretty much.

What I will add is that it would seem that Lance did not just participate in the drug taking, he went at it with determination, control, organised it properly, optimised it throughout his whole team, causing doping to explode throughout the scene.

He fueled this explosion of doping in cycling, and all because he wanted to win at any cost. He could have stood against it, blown the whistle, raced clean, but he didn't, he went the other way with planning and gusto.

There is only one sort of person that would do that. A massive cunt.

I've been saying Lance was a cunt for years, in the face of people with your opinion of him, seeing him having beaten cancer (and boy, didn't he let us know it!) and triumphed against huge odds, surely this man must be 'blessed' in someway, he has to be a good guy, right?

Wrong, he's a cunt, he's always been a cunt and now everyone knows that.

EDIT - I'm really not having a pop at you here, jackel, I'm just using the opportunity to rant about Lance. Laughing
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carlosthejack...
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PostPosted: 09:43 - 31 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

D O G wrote:
carlosthejackal wrote:
Stuff

Ranty stuff


No, seriously, it's cool, I can understand Covs and yourself's distaste wholeheartedly, and I'm sad to say my opinion is also shifting somewhat as I read more. I've seen a couple of recent news interviews with LA that were conducted before the Reasoned Decision/UCI ruling was released, and I can't help feeling that the previously invincibility of the man now comes over as self-satisfied smugness. I think there are a lot more that involved that are as guilty, but as you say, he seems to be the one that was driving it.

And sadly, in my mind, it throws up all kinds of questions about his illness and the causes therein, something which is alluded to in interviews and the USADA document. One other thing regarding that too, is that after treatment, it was thought he would never naturally conceive, but he has. Several times. Was the whole cancer thing a scam too? Surely that can't be true. If I'm wrong, that would make him the biggest cunt on the planet....
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Responsibility. It's a difficult reality for some. I'm running the 2014 Sheffield Half Marathon on behalf of Bluebell Wood Childrens Hospice. Please sponsor me, even if it's just a quid.
DonnyBrago: "I think you may be confusing rain and napalm..." Paulington: "It's not what you ride, it's how you ride it."
Current rides: '05 VFR800 VTEC, '57 Mondeo 1.8 TDCi #58LEGEND
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carlosthejack...
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 31 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

And just to clarify, it was his survival and achievements that I had the respect for. I didn't want to bum him or anything...
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Responsibility. It's a difficult reality for some. I'm running the 2014 Sheffield Half Marathon on behalf of Bluebell Wood Childrens Hospice. Please sponsor me, even if it's just a quid.
DonnyBrago: "I think you may be confusing rain and napalm..." Paulington: "It's not what you ride, it's how you ride it."
Current rides: '05 VFR800 VTEC, '57 Mondeo 1.8 TDCi #58LEGEND
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 31 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Afaik he had sperm frozen, he overcome cancer, no doubt the best and fastest access to cancer specialist helped, as he needed saving, being such a hero. Rolling Eyes

He was a good strong aggressive rider in USA, then he crosses the pond and sees he needs to dope to win, how much doping was already present and if he felt he had no choice, i,m not sure, only been following it last 5 years or so.

He got caught doping and paid off the lab early on, from then on he proberly used more dope than anyone else, inc blood transfusions, and i would not be surprised if he did not make more payments to stay 'clean'.

He lauded himself and was widely thought of as one of the most outstanding athletes ever seen.

When in fact he may never of been good enough to win the tour, maybe he rtn in 2009, if he was clean, which i doubt, was him seeing if he could in fact do it straight, then if he could not could site age etc.

What a utter discrace he is, and a power trip ruthless person he was, while pretending to be a white knight.

Great quote by Brad, was gutted he never got the podium when lance was third, now he,s got that back, but a bit late now.

Ive said before, i hope he loses the cases coming up for cash, then others will sue him and before long, he,ll be skint .. ish. Unlikely but a nice thought for me.
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carlosthejack...
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 31 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to this, he has actually conceived naturally and his latest child was conceived naturally as well. What to make of that? Who knows.

I don't normally wish ill of anyone who's fucked up, but in this case, yeah, some comeuppance should be forthcoming. I wonder if he feels the slightest shame at all, if all of this is correct? I doubt it. And I doubt he will ever be destitute or do time either. Which are probably the only things that would affect him negatively.
____________________
Responsibility. It's a difficult reality for some. I'm running the 2014 Sheffield Half Marathon on behalf of Bluebell Wood Childrens Hospice. Please sponsor me, even if it's just a quid.
DonnyBrago: "I think you may be confusing rain and napalm..." Paulington: "It's not what you ride, it's how you ride it."
Current rides: '05 VFR800 VTEC, '57 Mondeo 1.8 TDCi #58LEGEND
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carlosthejack...
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 31 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is good...

http://youtu.be/BoaxCO5wLh0
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Responsibility. It's a difficult reality for some. I'm running the 2014 Sheffield Half Marathon on behalf of Bluebell Wood Childrens Hospice. Please sponsor me, even if it's just a quid.
DonnyBrago: "I think you may be confusing rain and napalm..." Paulington: "It's not what you ride, it's how you ride it."
Current rides: '05 VFR800 VTEC, '57 Mondeo 1.8 TDCi #58LEGEND
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