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Gaskets, Tyres and Engine Corrosion = Bad Bike?

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Craggles
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Gaskets, Tyres and Engine Corrosion = Bad Bike? Reply with quote

Hi guys,

Been looking at a CB250 today --

It looks quite nice, 1994 16k on the clock

Engine is quite corroded... but that can be cleaned up... seems a little odd to be so corroded for something with only 16k on the clock - even if it is 10 years old.

The gaskets are also not flush with the engine... and are an obvious different colour - This concerns me! To me, this means they've had the engine apart...? Why? What could this mean?

It's also got new tyres... so new there is still chalk markings on them. Why on earth would you change the tyres on a bike thats been ridden by an old guy to go down the shop just before you sell it?

Thoughts, anyone?

I have not done a HPI check yet, but will do if i think its worth perusing the bike...

Cheers

Craig
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NickD
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many bikes of this kind are used as all year round commuters, ally will fur up quickly when salt is present.

If after 16k, the engine had not been apart, I would be worried. It should have the top end removed at the first major service.

I would change the tyres to sell if they were close to the wear limit, and on such a bike I would expect that to be about the 3rd change. Also, if it has been stood for any length of time, the tyres may have started to perish, and would need replacing.

The things you have described could all be perfectly normal, just check it out carefully.
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mr.z
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the tyres were totaly bald?

Engine appart, well depending on if whoever had it appart was a total moron or a fairly competant mechanic home or otherwise... will make the difference beetween good or bad... does it come with recipts for work done? why not ask for the old guys number so you can ask what he has done to the engine...

How much was it for again?

Corroded engine? i dont know how the finish was on the cb250, a brillo pad and allot of effort will get it back good again... but for the kind of bike it is... spray it black and dont worry too much about it...
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Craggles
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

zero wrote:

How much was it for again?


On ebay at £550 at the mo.

Yea asking for the old guys number is a good idea, and I'll give him a call and ask for recepts Thumbs Up

Cheers

Craig
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nkd666 wrote:

It should have the top end removed at the first major service.


Are you sure about this?

The only time the top end of a 4-stroke engine should be removed is when you strip it to do work and you don't do that in a service. You do remove the rocker cover on a 4-stroke but not the top end

Yes the engines on these do corrode, the lacquer is crap but they are easy to clean up.

The right hand crankcase cover has to be removed at every service as instead of having a removable oil filter it has a filter gauze in the cover that needs cleaning.
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NickD
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="sickpup"]
Nkd666 wrote:

Are you sure about this?


Yep. I'd have a set of feelers beween the rings and the bore at 8k, And I'd like to bet that if the old gimmer that's had it was brought up with 'old school' maintenance, he'll have done the same.
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mrchips
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB250's are 10 a penny, walk away and find a nice mint one.
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mr.z
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrchips wrote:
CB250's are 10 a penny, walk away and find a nice mint one.


Actually to be honest i'd do the same...

You can get a cx500 for the same or less (same as i have, first big bike and all) shaft driven, low maintainance, more relyable than the 250, restricts very well, comfy as comfy can be, ive been anywhere and everywhere on mine...

Cb 400s go for not far off that either...
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Re: Gaskets, Tyres and Engine Corrosion = Bad Bike? Reply with quote

Craggles wrote:
Engine is quite corroded... but that can be cleaned up... seems a little odd to be so corroded for something with only 16k on the clock - even if it is 10 years old.


Well I had a 6k mile CMX250, and that was only 2 years old and the engine alloy began to fur badly and corrode. Its juts inherrent of the bare alloy honda used on the bike, and its nothing really, Just means its been used in a few winters.

Craggles wrote:
The gaskets are also not flush with the engine... and are an obvious different colour - This concerns me! To me, this means they've had the engine apart...? Why? What could this mean?

Could mean he's had the top end off, to do the valves or service the engine etc, or it could have been leaking and needed to be replace?

Craggles wrote:
It's also got new tyres... so new there is still chalk markings on them. Why on earth would you change the tyres on a bike thats been ridden by an old guy to go down the shop just before you sell it?

Well does it have a recent MOT, if it does it may have needed new tyres too pass, and bikes sell better with a full MOT and tyres don't cost that much anyway on CB's so the owner was probably making the bike more worthwhile buying

Regards

Craig.
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Big Pete
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 01 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nkd666 wrote:


Yep. I'd have a set of feelers beween the rings and the bore at 8k, And I'd like to bet that if the old gimmer that's had it was brought up with 'old school' maintenance, he'll have done the same.


There speaks a 2 stroke man, on a reasonably modern 4 stroke engine you shouldnt need to be in the bores at less than 40-50k, apart from adjusting the valve clearances (and the cam chain tensioner) nothing else in the top end should need touching unless its been heavily abused.
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mattsmith95
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PostPosted: 00:01 - 02 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engine corrosion, My T-reg CB250 had it too, the spray job on Honda's are crap these days, probably left out in the elements without a cover for ages. I sprayed mine up black and looks quite evil Evil or Very Mad ..

Gaskets, probably replaced due to blown gaskets.

If I saw the bike, road tested it I could tell you how good it is as I ride one 9 hours a day, five days a week.

Have a look around, find a nice clean one, £1700 for a good one, £2200 for a GREAT one.
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mr.z
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 02 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsmith95 wrote:

Have a look around, find a nice clean one, £1700 for a good one, £2200 for a GREAT one.


Thing is for that money you could have a heeeeel of allot of good bikes...

Don't get too stuck on the idea of a particular bike/engine size.. 400/500/600's are generally better bikes than 250s, because..

Better brakes
More planted on the road (due to weight e.t.c.)
More comfortable
less likely to have been ragged to within an inch of its life (on account of haveing some in reserve)

Just my opinion, but haveing had a 500 for a year (as long as ive had my licence) i'd be very dissapointed to have a 250 right now. (for the type of rideing i do, for in town courrier/commuter bikes they are not far off perfection)

Ive seen gpz 500s in good condition go for the same or less :/

Oh yeh, and dealerships, ask abbout the warrenty, 3months probably coveing your engine and gearbox, not really worth the £2/300 extra imo...
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 02 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nkd666 wrote:
I'd have a set of feelers beween the rings and the bore at 8k


Pity thats not how you test to see if the rings are worn then. In fact I'm not quite sure what thats supposed to test considering your not supposed to use feeler guages on curved surfaces.
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Big Pete
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 02 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Nkd666 wrote:
I'd have a set of feelers beween the rings and the bore at 8k


Pity thats not how you test to see if the rings are worn then. In fact I'm not quite sure what thats supposed to test considering your not supposed to use feeler guages on curved surfaces.


depends what sort of feelers you have, wire type ones work fine on curved surfaces, normal feelers can be used to check the ring gap for wear.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 02 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete

Yeah your right just been a long time since I saw wire guages but even these I wouldn't use to check piston to barrel clearance what with pistons being narrower at the top than the bottom and slightly oval in shape.

Point is (as you agreed) the bikes a 4-stroke so its a waste of time to strip the top end to check piston to bore clearance ( and my point) especially if you use the wrong tools so get an inaccurate reading.
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mchaggis
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 02 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're taking the pistons out, don't you use vernier callipers to measure their roundness? I can't remember what the micrometer on a stalk thing for measuring the bore is called now though. Are the rings not supposed to be a sliding fit, so clearances should be c. 0?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 02 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchaggis wrote:
If you're taking the pistons out, don't you use vernier callipers to measure their roundness? I can't remember what the micrometer on a stalk thing for measuring the bore is called now though. Are the rings not supposed to be a sliding fit, so clearances should be c. 0?


You can use verniers to measure a piston. You do it from the front to the back at top and bottom. Piston are narrower side to side. use a spring caliper for the bore.

The rings you take off the piston and put in the bore then measure the gap between the ends with feeler guages and check against your manual.

Ideally you take a measurement with your vernier and then measure the vernier with a micrometer. Then use the spring caliper and measure that with the same micrometer so in affect all measurements are taken with the same micrometer
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