Insurance claim advice please.

[BigDan1190]

Hi all, on Friday I was knocked off.

Heres the story;

Lane 1 – straight or left (requires indication)
Lane 2 – straight or turn right (requires indication)
Lane 3 – right only

I had filtered up between lanes 2 and 3, and stopped at the front of traffic to the right of the third party. I was going straight ahead, aiming to move ahead of third party and merge into his lane in front of him (as motorcycles can be a lot quicker off the line).

When the lights changed to green, I performed shoulder check and set off. Third party set off quickly and veered into me and my lane without indicating at all. I tried to steer away from him but he turned too quickly, we collided, my passenger and I were knocked off my motorbike, and the motorbike slid away from us.

When the third party stopped and got out of the vehicle, he checked we were ok and said he hadn’t seen us. He admitted he was not indicating.

I informed the third party that his lane was straight on OR turn right, and that indicating was 100% necessary on his part. Third party was under the impression that his lane was right only.

I then pointed out to the third party (as traffic was still flowing) that all the vehicles that were in lane 2 were going straight on except for one or two turning right, who were indicating correctly.

After getting home, third party called to check me and my passenger got home safely, and said that he had checked “Google street view” and that he was correct in saying that his lane was right only. I said “if that is true, then I suppose we are both to blame”.

However, I then checked google street view myself after speaking with the third party, and found that I was infact correct, and that the lane he was using is definitely straight on OR right.

To conclude, the third party was completely at fault. None of my actions were wrong, illegal, or misleading.



I initially didn't really want to claim because I can't be arsed with months of insurance bollocks, I'd rather buy a new fairing panel off Ebay for less than £100.

But i'm worried his insurance company will claim against me.

I informed my insurance company on Friday when I got home, but said I did not wish to pursue a claim unless he tried to claim against me.

Now, I have a witness (my passenger) - so as far as I'm concerned, he doesn't have a leg to stand on does he?

I'm just wondering if I should claim against him anyway just to ensure he doesn't try claiming against me.

Here are two pictures (using google street view) that I whipped up quickly on paint to show positioning e.t.c.


https://i.imgur.com/K17gGh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Q0ixg.jpg

[LockyUK]

if it is as the picture suggests he is 100% at fault, but if there are no witnesses, could be horrendous..

[BigDan1190]

My passenger is the witness.


EDIT: Just confirmed with a driving instructor, yes he definately needed to have been indicating if he wanted to go right.

[andyscooter]

island like that i wouldnt of been there

it was his fault but you shouldnt of been there anyway

you were not in any lane

he didnt see you asw you were in his blind spot

50/50
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[Acemastr]

It'll most likely go 75/25 to him or 50/50, there's a time and place for filtering and that didn't appear to be it.

Your pillion won't work as a witness though
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[Ingah]

[BigDan1190]

Obviously I wouldn't have been there if he was indicating. As he wasn't, I thought it was safe to sit there. As I always do.

I wouldn't be in his blind spot because my front wheel was in line with the front of his bumper, so as a rider I should have been in his vision.

If they do claim it to be 50/50, does it count against me? Would both vehicles have to be fixed? Would we both lose no claims?

Its definately more his fault than mine.

I know in my mind than he is 100% to blame, but its what the insurance want it to be really isn't it?

[Cuchulain]

If you were sitting to the right of him and wanting to go straight on you were preventing him from turning right, indicators on or not, no?
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CBT 15/6/2011 Theory Test Passed 6/2/2012 Module 1 Passed 11/6/2012
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[cimbian]

It could be construed that you should've turned right as you were to the right of the vehicle dominating lane 2 where he would not have seen your right indicator, on or off.

I think you could be on thin-ice as far as that is concerned but regardless he should not have hit you.
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Current: Moto Guzzi 1100 Breva. Previous: Honda XL650V TransAlp
Bearded, Balding, Born again Buddhist Biker

[Vincent]

I don't know how true this is and it's a few years ago but when I was taking my car test, my instructor said that if a lane has an arrow chevron, you don't need to indicate.
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[Dan_Davies]

Personally if i was going straight on and i knew how the lanes were marked and that there was a chance some cager would turn right without indicating i'd have filtered up between lane 1 and 2. Having said that, the cager was at fault but i'd have played it safe.
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[cimbian]

[G]

I think the indicators thing is a bit of a red herring.
Indicators do not give you 'right of way'; they are only there to signal your intent to others.

As far as blame goes you put yourself between a lane which is straight on and right and right turn only.

If I were in that position, I certainly wouldn't be doing a shoulder check before accelerating - I'd be accelerating hard and making sure I was in front of any traffic.

But, further from that, I'd be pulling to the front of the queue and infront of the lead car to my left - I'd then try and get eye contact for additional confidence that they knew I was there.

Morally, personally I'd put you more to blame than the car driver.

If his indicator had been on (which seems to be your 'defence'), what would you have been doing differently? You'd still be in 'the wrong place'.

And no, your pillion isn't really a credible independant witness I'm afraid.

[BigDan1190]

As i've already noted, if his indicator was on, I would not have been on his right. I would have stopped before him. And if it was already too late, I would have simply turned right, not a problem.

I said to the chap at the time, i know I wasn't in the best position, but how was I to know you were going to turn right?

Also, the third lane can be used to turn right onto any of the three lanes heading right. He tried to go from lane 2 (ahead) to lane 2 (right)!

See 2nd mockup below;

White = third party and the route he took
Blue = me
Red = the routes available to him
Orange = the routes available to people in lane 3

https://i.imgur.com/NMBBt.jpg

[cimbian]

I do think your positioning was unwise regardless of the use of indicators or not, but the driver of the car should still not have hit you.

If your intention to out-accelerate the car was not working then should you not have backed-off through caution?
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22PlusY
Current: Moto Guzzi 1100 Breva. Previous: Honda XL650V TransAlp
Bearded, Balding, Born again Buddhist Biker

[BigDan1190]

In hindsight, I agree my position was not wise, because we should all expect this nonsense from car drivers, however, my position was not illegal.

[Bomberman]

Is that the right towards Didsbury? I'm afraid I'd have to say if it is or not, you got it wrong there. If it is, then you got it very wrong.
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[cimbian]

[J.M.]

You really should have been betweens lane 1 & 2 there to be safe, not 2 & 3, but hindsight is always 20/20.

From a legal point of view... I have no idea.

In your situation I would also have expected the car to be going straight on. But also as G says, I'd have nailed it off the line the instant the lights change to make sure that I was in front of the car.

In the car drivers position I would have expected you to be going right, not straight on. Although personally if I was driving the car I would have waited for you to get in front before moving.

Vincent: I believe that the no-indicating thing applies only to dedicated lanes. I.E. if you're in a right hand only dedicated lane, indicate to enter it but once in it you no longer need to indicate. In the event of this I would say that the middle lane requires indication because it gives an option about where the driver can go; straight or right.
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[DrDonnyBrago]

Looks like your fault to me.

[chris-red]

You shouldn't have been there, even if you were you should have made damn sure you got in front of him.

It'll go 50/50 but I think it is your fault. You're on a bike so you are vulnerable and with a pillion putting yourself between 2 lanes of right turning traffic, you are pretty much asking for it.

I might have done what you did but I would have been well infront of the car as soon as the light went yellow. I would never put myself there with a pillion risk/reward not worth it.

If I was you I would be blaming myself.
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[Redoko]

By your own admission you've just stated you were in the wrong lane.

https://i.imgur.com/NMBBt.jpg
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[Cuchulain]

There was a magazine/book released earlier in the year called the 'New Motorcyclist's Handbook' that I bought to help me pass my tests.

That had a section on filtering and it mentioned something along the lines of 'Whilst it's perfectly legal to filter, it's not considered okay to create a third lane of traffice. You should pull in to the lane before reaching the front.

Can't remember if they said it was a legal issue or just sensible advice though...
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CBT 15/6/2011 Theory Test Passed 6/2/2012 Module 1 Passed 11/6/2012
Module 2 Passed!!! 19/6/2012

[Ingah]