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Chalky.
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 11 Nov 2012    Post subject: Battery damage? Reply with quote

I often short batteries to see if they have any life, use a bit of wire or whatever I can find.

Some old boy the other day reckon this would damage the cells?

Obviously a multimeter would be the best test, but not always to hand when out.

Any truth in what he's said?

Ta.
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 11 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be more concerned about the hydrogen gas.

Suspect a quick shorting wouldn't damage the lead plates.
You can get mini volt meters for a fiver...smaller than a packet a fags.
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Chalky.
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 12 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks chaps.

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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 15:16 - 12 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a battery on has a partial charge then shorting across the terminals will still cause a spark.

As for hydrogen gas given off by the battery,sealed gel batteries do not give off any gas.

To discharge at too high a rate,as happens when shorting the terminals,will cause the plates to distort if done too often.This will then shorten the life of the battery.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 16:27 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chalky. wrote:
Thanks chaps.

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I have seen the results of hydrogen gas ignition loads of times.
The bang is bad but the lead shrapnel and acid is worsererer.

Caused by tings like dropping the jumper cables on the metal bed in the test room, disconnecting the charger in the battery room or shorting the posts with a wire.

I am still to be convinced that this is a reliable method of determining the state of charge. Smile
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

99.9% of the time you will be fine but it doesn't really tell you much.

A multimeter is so much better. Batteries (lead acid) only tend to explode when left shorted for much more time than it takes for a little bit of wire to warm up.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Do you do this with the battery on the vehicle and connected up?

All the best

Keith
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
99.9% of the time you will be fine but it doesn't really tell you much.

A multimeter is so much better. Batteries (lead acid) only tend to explode when left shorted for much more time than it takes for a little bit of wire to warm up.


You won't get as far as heating up the wire. It's the wee spark and the oxygen/hydrogen mix. Rockets go to the moon on it too. Smile
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydrogen gas is only produced when the battery is being charged IIRC.

A multimeter doesn't really tell you anything about the battery either, it tells you it has 12v at 0A but what you really need is a drop tester which is basically a short circuit with a volt meter on it. This induces a massive current load and tells you how many volts you will have when there is a load on the battery, and is a much better indicator of how it will perform when required to work at a high load, such as turning the starter motor.

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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

J4mes wrote:
Hydrogen gas is only produced when the battery is being charged IIRC.

A multimeter doesn't really tell you anything about the battery either, it tells you it has 12v at 0A but what you really need is a drop tester which is basically a short circuit with a volt meter on it. This induces a massive current load and tells you how many volts you will have when there is a load on the battery, and is a much better indicator of how it will perform when required to work at a high load, such as turning the starter motor.

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No need for a special tool to do that.
Measure volts between posts.
Foot on brake.
Top Gear
Clutch engaged
Crank on the strater.
It will load a battery just as much as a load tester and takes seconds to do.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
The Artist wrote:
99.9% of the time you will be fine but it doesn't really tell you much.

A multimeter is so much better. Batteries (lead acid) only tend to explode when left shorted for much more time than it takes for a little bit of wire to warm up.


You won't get as far as heating up the wire. It's the wee spark and the oxygen/hydrogen mix. Rockets go to the moon on it too. Smile


Where is this hydrogen coming from? Every time I connect up batteries, they spark a little. Hydrogen is created when charging yes.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
Where is this hydrogen coming from? Every time I connect up batteries, they spark a little. Hydrogen is created when charging yes.


That's right.

So when the battery is in the vehicle it doesn't get charged?

Rolling Eyes

We need some smarter folk at bcf, that bloke Pits was right all along.

Laughing
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes if it's connected to the circuit and the engine is running, but if that was the case why would the OP be chucking a wire across it in order to see if it was ok?

Laughing
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

J4mes wrote:
Yes if it's connected to the circuit and the engine is running, but if that was the case why would the OP be chucking a wire across it in order to see if it was ok?

Laughing


Beats me....

Smile

I was hauled off my terminal there...

The battery will spark. BUT one must remove any gassing which has accumulated in the battery before making sparks.

Battery tops should be vented by blowing with a little air.
Reducing the gas to below LEL (Lower Explosive Limit)
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Last edited by Walloper on 18:42 - 14 Nov 2012; edited 1 time in total
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
The Artist wrote:
Where is this hydrogen coming from? Every time I connect up batteries, they spark a little. Hydrogen is created when charging yes.


That's right.

So when the battery is in the vehicle it doesn't get charged?

Rolling Eyes

We need some smarter folk at bcf, that bloke Pits was right all along.

Laughing


The implication was he finds batteries somewhere and wants to check them, not in a working running vehicle.

The conclusion to this thread.

1. You will be fine most probably.
2. A multimeter is a very good cheap investment if you are working with cars and batteries and things on a regular basis.
3. Walloper is a n00b
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
The implication was he finds batteries somewhere and wants to check them, not in a working running vehicle.

The conclusion to this thread.

1. You will be fine most probably.
2. A multimeter is a very good cheap investment if you are working with cars and batteries and things on a regular basis.
3. Walloper is a n00b


No the conclusion is

4. The Artist is one of the sort I regulary see getting blasted by stuff not readily respected.
Or in fact understood it seems.

5. And The Artist is a bLUDGEr.
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Chalky.
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not on a vehicle, just connected to electric fencing.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chalky. wrote:
Not on a vehicle, just connected to electric fencing.


In that case do the usual, hook it up, touch fence / piss on it.
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Chalky.
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
Chalky. wrote:
Not on a vehicle, just connected to electric fencing.


In that case do the usual, hook it up, touch fence / piss on it.


Yes but don't like shocking myself Mossy Laughing

My dog pissed on an electric fence once, tres amusing.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 14 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me neither. I used to put a long blade of grass on the lower fence part and listen for the click click click
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 04:45 - 15 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw it on Mythbusters once (so it's true) that you can pish on 'the third rail' and not get electrocuted because the stream of pee pee is not constant and is more like morse code. (although I always thought it looks like a solid stream after ten lager drinks.)
They used high speed cameras to watch the Chinese guy pissing on a third rail for the test.

Bursting and then
Busted.

Anyone who pees on an electric fance deserves to die anyway. Smile
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