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| Hetzer |
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Hetzer
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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 Posted: 11:38 - 16 Nov 2012  Post subject: PC-World/currys, Apple and a faulty iPod Touch. |
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Three months old, the button stopped working. Took it in and was told "it's beyond 28 days so you can't have it replaced, it has to go for repair". Fair enough. The guy then said "We need the Apple ID, so need the user's email address or access to the device or Apple won't accept it." I had neither the email on me (it's my son's iPod) or the password to the device so it was left that the chappy would call us at home after his lunchbreak. He never did of course.
Next day the missus rang with the info. Ten days later we get a call that the email is wrong, turns out they'd written down a letter wrong. Gave them correct email.
Next day a guy calls and says how Apple have a policy of not accepting faulty items from the store and it's up to us to deal with Apple. I say that's illegal, I am entitled to return item to point of sale and they have to deal; he agrees. He next rings me and asks if it's ok if he pretends to be device owner to Apple, in order to "fool" them. I laugh and say ok, all I care about is getting device back in working order. He subsequently rings with further probs, which I deal with (correct surname to use etc). Nothing heard since (that was yesterday).
However, while looking into it it appears from the govt site on returns that if within six months of purchase the customer is entitled to require either repair OR replacement of item.
Something very bizarre going on here.
Cutting to the chase...am I entitled to a replacement rather than a repair? Where did they get this 28-day rule from? There is nothing about 28 days on the govt website, it stipulates six months.
TIA to the experts.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!" |
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| UnknownStuntm... |
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UnknownStuntm...
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| Hetzer |
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Hetzer
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| Posted: 11:47 - 16 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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I'm liking the cut of the feller's jib for acting 'out of the box', but I'm also starting to smell a rat and thinking maybe the guy's a nutter or intending to leave employment with PC-World and is doing mischief.
I also gave up smoking yesterday and thinking it might not be a good idea to hop on the bike and go visit in person in case somebody ends up getting clumped. 
But also thinking I don't want to get a 'good guy' into trouble, but also thinking I'll get a replacement if I kick up a fuss. Argh! Need...nicotine...!
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| drzsta |
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drzsta
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map
Mr Calendar
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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| Posted: 12:26 - 16 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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From my recent thread on EU directive on customer goods and warranty.
This is EU Directive 1999/44/EU and quotes 2 years warranty for goods minimum.
Do a google search on what to say to shops.
I have tried to attach pdf of the directive. Refer to Article 3, rights of the consumer and Article 5, time limits. You might have to be logged on to see/download this.
Your contract is with the original supplier, not the manufacturer. It really annoys me when shops turn around and say you must deal with the manufacturer. No I don't. I'm not here to make your job easier or do it for you. It's your job to follow the law despite what your company policy/management think otherwise.
HTH 
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| Joncrete Cungle |
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Joncrete Cungle
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Joined: 31 Jan 2012
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| Posted: 13:00 - 16 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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Have a look at Sale of Goods Act, it sounds to me like your ipod touch is not of satisfactory quality and is not fit for purpose.
https://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/sogaexplained
| Quote: | Circumstances when customers do have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement
Customers do have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement if an item they purchased
does not match the description
is not of satisfactory quality
is not fit for purpose .
Each of these circumstances would mean that the item does not conform to contract and therefore it can be described as faulty . The next section of this guide, Your responsibilities as a retailer, provides a full explanation.
If you point out a fault to a customer and they are able to inspect that fault before they make a purchase, their purchase means they have accepted the fault and they cannot claim their legal right (outlined above) in relation to that particular fault.
Customers' rights last for six years
The law says that a customer can approach you with a claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years from the date of sale (five years after discovery of the problem in Scotland).
This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the customer to make a claim about an item. During this period, you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty ) and you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last. A customer cannot hold you responsible for fair wear and tear .
The six-year period is not the same as a guarantee, but it does mean that even where the guarantee or warranty supplied with the product has ended, your customer may still have legal rights.
Complying with the law
You cannot remove a customer's legal rights, for example by displaying a notice saying 'we do not give refunds under any circumstances' or 'credit notes only in the case of faulty items'.
It is also against the law to mislead consumers about their legal rights - this could lead to a criminal prosecution under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
*The customer does not have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement as a result of the damage their repair attempt has caused to the item. But, they may still have a right to a remedy because of the original fault with the item, such as a price reduction or a partial refund. Or, if appropriate, the customer may request a repair of the original fault if this makes the item usable despite the damage they have caused. See Faulty goods that have been accepted for more information about these remedies. |
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| Joncrete Cungle |
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Joncrete Cungle
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| Posted: 13:01 - 16 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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Bit more.....
https://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/sogaexplained
| Quote: | Your contract with the customer
Under the Sale of Goods Act, when you sell something to a customer you have an agreement or contract with them.
A customer has legal rights if the goods they purchased do not conform to contract (are faulty). The Act says that to conform to contract goods should
match their description
by law everything that is said about the product must not be misleading - whether this is said by a sales assistant, or written on the packaging, in-store, on advertising materials or in a catalogue
be of satisfactory quality
quality of goods includes
- appearance and finish
- freedom from minor defects (such as marks or holes)
- safe to use
- in good working order
- durability
be fit for purpose
if a customer says - or when it should be obvious to the retailer - that an item is wanted for a particular purpose , even if it is a purpose the item is not usually supplied for, and the retailer agrees the item is suitable, or does not say it is not fit for that purpose, then it has to be reasonably fit.
If you disagree with the customer about a particular purpose, you should make this clear, perhaps on the sales receipt, to protect yourself against future claims.
Your responsibilities for the goods you sell
You are responsible for the goods you sell and if a customer returns an item they purchased from you that is faulty (it does not conform to contract) because it
does not match the description
is not of satisfactory quality
is not fit for purpose .
you (not the manufacturer or supplier) are legally obliged to resolve the matter with the customer at any time for up to six years from the date of purchase, or in Scotland for up to five years from the discovery of the problem.
Any refund, repair or replacement you arrange with your customer relating to faulty goods must not cause them too much inconvenience and you will have to pay for other costs, for example, collection or delivery.
If you disagree with a customer's claim, you can ask if they are willing for you to send the item to a third party or the manufacturer for inspection. If the customer agrees you can do this, it is important to remember that the goods must not be damaged during this process.
Customers' rights remain the same whether the retailer is acting as an agent or principal.
Your customer also has a responsibility to make sure that they service the item they buy from you correctly and follow any user instructions provided. |
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| Joncrete Cungle |
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Joncrete Cungle
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| Posted: 13:06 - 16 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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Last bit, for now......
https://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/sogaexplained
| Quote: | Customers are entitled to reject goods if they are faulty (do not match the description , are not of satisfactory quality , or are not fit for purpose ) and receive a full refund if they have not yet accepted the goods.
Before a customer is believed to have accepted the goods they have purchased, the law allows customers a reasonable opportunity to inspect or examine the goods and this should take place within a reasonable time .
For items sold in a shop, it is important for retailers to know that inspecting them in a shop is often not considered a reasonable opportunity. This is due to the restrictions of packaging and in-store display in allowing a customer to identify a problem or a fault.
For items being delivered, it is important for retailers to know that signing a delivery note is not acceptance as it does not allow the customer a reasonable opportunity to inspect the goods and identify any problems or faults.
The law does not give a time limit for acceptance. When trying to decide if a customer has had a reasonable opportunity to inspect their goods, consider what an impartial person in a court would think reasonable for that product in the circumstances.
Faulty goods, no acceptance
If the item does not conform to contract (is faulty ) for any of the reasons mentioned previously, and the customer has not accepted the goods, the law says the customer is entitled to
reject the goods and claim a full refund, or
request a repair or replacement if that is the customer's preferred option.
As the retailer, you can offer a repair, a replacement or a credit note, but you cannot insist on any one of these. It is the customer's right to receive a full refund in these circumstances.
Where a customer is entitled to a full refund because they have not accepted the goods but have agreed that you may repair or replace the goods, they can still claim a full refund if the repair or replacement is
taking an unreasonable time, or
causing an unreasonable inconvenience, or
if the repair or replacement is not satisfactory when they receive it.
Faulty goods that have been accepted
If the item does not conform to contract (is faulty ) for any of the reasons outlined and the customer has accepted the goods, the law says the customer is entitled to claim a repair or replacement of the goods in the first instance.
If either a repair or replacement is not possible, or the cost is greater than the value of the item ( disproportionately costly ), or the customer claims either option is taking an unreasonable amount of time or is causing unreasonable inconvenience, the customer is then entitled to
keep the goods and claim a price reduction from the retailer to compensate them for the fault in the goods - this would be the difference between the value of the product in perfect condition and the value of the product in the faulty condition, or
return the goods and rescind the contract . This would mean that the customer returns the goods and you provide a partial refund, calculated to reflect the benefit the customer has received from the product.
Where a customer is entitled to repair or replacement because they have accepted the goods, they can claim price reduction or partial refund if the repair or replacement is
taking an unreasonable time, or
causing an unreasonable inconvenience, or
if the repair or replacement is not satisfactory when they receive it.
When you calculate price reductions or partial refunds, think about what an impartial person in a court would think is a reasonable amount.
Proving a problem
Included in the law is a section on burden of proof. This outlines whether you are entitled to ask a customer to prove that an item was faulty when they bought it from you.
The details of the law are explained opposite. If you are considering asking a customer to prove that an item was faulty when they bought it from you, it is important to consider what proof an impartial person in a court might feel was required. For example, someone in a court might accept that a simple customer statement saying that their item did not work correctly would be sufficient proof.
Requesting a refund
If a customer wishes to reject or not accept faulty goods, you are entitled to ask the customer to prove the goods were faulty when they bought them from you. If they are able to do this, they are entitled to a full refund.
Requesting a repair or replacement
If a customer has accepted the goods and is requesting a repair or replacement because the goods are faulty, the onus on who is required to prove the problem depends on how long ago they purchased the item.
Under six months - the customer does not have to prove the item was faulty when they bought it from you. If you disagree it is up to you, the retailer, to prove the item did conform to contract (or that the fault did not exist) at the time of sale.
Over six months - you are entitled to ask the customer to prove the item was faulty when they bought it from you. If they are able to do this they are entitled to a repair or replacement.
Proving the item was purchased from you
If a customer returns an item and complains, you are entitled to check that the item was bought from you and on the date claimed. It is the customer's responsibility to prove that the item was purchased from you.
A sales receipt is a good way of checking; if the customer has lost their receipt but is able to offer other evidence, for example, a bank or credit card statement, packaging etc, then you must accept this if it demonstrates the goods were purchased from you.
Although sales receipts are not legally required, you should ensure you provide them for customers as a safeguard for both sides, should there be a complaint.
Consequential loss
If a customer suffers personally because of a problem with an item, they may be able to claim damages (money to make up for it). This is called consequential loss . One example would be if a customer had to pay out more money (perhaps to hire another item) because of a faulty item that you sold them.
A more serious example would be if they suffered injury or damage because of a faulty item.
A customer who claimed damages for consequential loss would be expected to have tried to resolve the issue with the retailer first.
Claims for consequential loss do not normally cover distress, inconvenience or disappointment. |
If anyone has to return a faulty item in the future it is usually worth refreshing SOGA in your mind beforehand. So you can bat away the lame in store excuses as the member of staff dealing with you attempts to deliver them. |
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yaigi
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cromwell
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Hetzer
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| Posted: 15:01 - 16 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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Cheers guys. I've just got back with a refund which will be put towards getting him a Nexus 7 instead. Upgraded from an over-priced piece of BS from a pretentious bunch of tossers (Apple) to something a hundred times better for only £50 extra.
I've already got the Nexus 7 here, it was his sister's xmas prezzie. I'm now thinking I'm going to have to upgrade her to a Nexus 10 as he's now going to playing with what she was going to get. If you see what I mean. 
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syl
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| Posted: 15:07 - 16 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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Despite being a Microsoft man, the one thing I wouldn't fault apple on is their warranty. Essentially the will replace any defective item in the first year, wherever you bought it, even if you've smashed the screen, with a new one. Outside the warranty they will sell you a relatively cheap replacement.
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Hetzer
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stinkwheel
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Hetzer
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Carl_steveo
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| Tomzo47 |
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Tomzo47
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: 23:01 - 16 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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skipped reading replies as I'm knackered, but my Ipod classic buttons stopped working about 8 months after I had it, went on the apple website, filled in my details and serial code for the Ipod, got sent a package to ship it in, and got a brand new one a month later. Fuck Curries, go direct to Apple
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Ingah
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Noxious89123
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| Posted: 00:10 - 17 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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I think everytime I've had to return a faulty computer component to overclockers.co.uk they've given me the bullshit about having to go via the manufacturer, and everytime I've had to start quoting laws and legislation at them to get them to co-operate. 
Why do retailers try to piss us around?
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'06 Honda CBR125RW-6 ~ '00 Honda CBR600F-Y ~ '07 Honda CBR600RR-7 ~ Bikeless 
'53 Ford Ka 1.3 ~ '03 Vauxhall Astra SRi 1.8 ~ '52 Vauxhall Astra SRi 2.2 ~ '53 Vauxhall Astra GSi |
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Ingah
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Marmalade
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| Posted: 01:41 - 17 Nov 2012 Post subject: |
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My iphone came from vodafone.
One saturday night the volume up button wouldn't work, no clicky feel to it.
Looked online and ended up on the apple site, entered serial number and it told me the warranty left, booked a time slot in the Bath store for the sunday morning.....
Took phone in, painless no wait to see one of their people who took it out the back, came back 2 mins later and said "sorry, nothing we can do with that here we'll give you a replacement"
Pulled open a drawer and got one out, no id needed, no bullshit just plain simple good service.
I was shocked, lots.
If anyone ever has an issue with an apple product just take it to the store.
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Tarmacsurfer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 98 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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