Better take the points instead of speed awareness!

[Hyaon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20328860

Can't say Im shocked. Glad I sold my car...

EDIT: it does mention car insurance only, but I wonder if they typically left the kitten killer motorbikes out of forgetting or.. the same thing is going on with bike insurance?
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Mod2 Passed 30/03/2011!
CBF125>GSF650 Bandit K8>B-King 2008+R1 2002

[J.M.]

I ran a quote with and without 3 points declared (I actually have no points) and it made 0p difference to any of my quotes.

Paddy's car insurance is cheaper with 3 points.

Personally I'd go for the course... but that's only because I'm only allowed 6 points for the first 2 years. With the 3DLD I dare not risk my licence.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[.Chris.]

Worrying, but possibly a bit overblown in that story. At the moment, it only seems to be one company that's doing it (Admiral, plus Elephant which is a subsidiary of Admiral) - therefore you can just take your business elsewhere. If other insurers follow, that's when it becomes a problem.
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[Redoko]

[Vracktal]

I might be wrong, but couldn't you just lie and say you haven't been on one? I was under the impression there was no record of you attending a SAC on your licence anyway so how would the insurance company know unless you told them?

[mentalboy]

Sounds mad. Unless they've changed the criteria for offering these courses then those that get the chance have only just exceeded the limit, not those serial hooners out there. Just seems another way for insurers to justify raising their premiums.
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Make mine a Corona.

[Kickstart]

[Rogerborg]

The Admiral group are huge: where they lead, others will likely follow.

Their position is farcical though. "Committed a speeding offence?" Tish, every driver does that every time they go on the road. "Got caught in some revenue raising honeypot", more like.

It's taking money out of the pockets of "Police partnerships" (read: backhanders) but putting it into insurers' coffers, so I'd call that a wash.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[map]

Heard about this on the radio.
Insurer quoted as saying because you've been caought speeding you're a higher insurance risk, regardless of any points/fine.

However, interview with some woman from Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO). She said it was wrong as their figures show people who have been on the course are improved, better, more responsible drivers (I forget actual words) so are a lower risk. Contradicts insurance company.

Basically boils down to the fact that insurance companies make their own laws that bear no relation to actual laws and all they want is your money.

Another example of doing their own thing is asking for points on licence from 5 years ago. However, government take them off licence after 3. So if the government effectively ignore those points what right do companies say they're better than the elected representatives? (I know there is the rehabilitation of offenders taking 5 years, yet I repeat the government ignores the points after 3 years).

Just another example of insurance companies wanting money. You need insurance so they have you over a barrel and they know it. Like they know unless you write-off of a vehicle minor scrapes will not go reported, given excess costs and their premium loading for claims, so save them payouts.


Found acpo words here...

[Rogerborg]

Hang on, that's ACPO Plc, and ask yourself who's running these courses and where the money is going.

I'm not actually against them, but ACPO Plc ranks aren't exactly unbiased observers.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[map]

[MarkJ]

My insurance with Admiral is due for renewal in a week, I won't be returning They also tried scamming £100 out of the Mrs two years ago saying she hadn't declared an accident which she had. She told them to go listen to the recordings and told her she was correct.

The full list of Admiral companies are here: https://www.admiralgroup.co.uk/business/our_companies.php

Of interest:

[G]

Some on here were mentioning that their insurance actually went down with points I believe!
Presumably the case was that people were less likely to be involved in an accident when they had points as they were generally being more careful with their road use to avoid more points.

[oldenuff]

[MarkJ]

But could they ever prove you attended a course?

[Rogerborg]

Given that the courses seem to be regional and are run by commercial outfits who will doubtless charge an access free for ratting you out (under the "crime" loophole in the DPA), I'd suggest that it be at some expense and difficulty"

i.e. not before you have a smash, but potentially afterwards.

arry?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Wave2k]

If its not a legal offense in the eyes of police to take a speed awareness course , why would you even have to declare it to the CONsurance ?

Robbing bastards
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Ducati 1299 Panigale
2009 Corvette C6 z51
RS125->CBR400->RXS100->GSXR750K2->Ducati749S->CBR600RR5->TL1000R->DRz400->RSVR1000->Honda VTR SP1->CBR400->GSXR1000K6->Honda H100->CBR600RR3->Ducati1299

[Vracktal]

Is there any kind of centralised database recording who's taken a SAC and when they took it? You can only take one every few years so the DVLA must have some way of checking, question is can insurers see it?

Also, for how long do you have to declare you've attended a SAC to Admiral for? Points expire after 3 years and you don't have to declare them after 5, but attending a SAC technically isn't an penalty so it has no expiry, they could insist you declare it to them forever if they wanted. o.O

[Rogerborg]

They've got hee-haw to do with the DVLA. The decision and running - and tendering - is entirely up to the local Farce, following guidelines from ACPO Plc.

It's no different at all to a copper collaring you for littering and asking you if you want him to hand your file to the CPS, or whether you'd like to pay £105 to his mate Baz in order to listen to a lecture on ecomentalism, in which case his notes might all just faaaaall in the shredder.

I don't have sure and certain knowledge of this, but I don't expect that having done a SAC is recorded in the PNC. It'll take someone blasting through every County in a day to find out though.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Rogerborg]

BUMP.

Oops. According to MCN, ACPO [Plc] subsidiary RSS hold a national database of SAC attendees. I'm sure they'll be delighted to sell that information to Admiral "for the prevention and detection of crime".

So look elsewhere.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Kickstart]

[Rogerborg]

Insurance fraud is criminal, they can obtain the information on that basis.

Heck, the DVLA sells our details to any Random Letterhead for purely civil cases, which is outwith the "crime" loophole in the DPA.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Vracktal]

Hmm...

Took a look at a few companies that do speed awareness courses, and found this on one of their websites;