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imagine an individual was reported to the police...

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c_dug
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: imagine an individual was reported to the police... Reply with quote

...in relation to a recent thread.

And said person had also used their pc for various activities that strictly speaking they shouldn't (tpb).

is there a scenario where that person should worry/consider buying a new hard-drive?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porn of the younger variety obviously. Doesn't matter if you have only looked.
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noobRider
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might, stuff in the browser cache etc count as downloaded?
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing no not porn.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would really depend on the nature of what they were reported for. If there could be evidence that the police need to prosecute it could be possible for the police to obtain a court order to sieze all computers and hard drives in the house.

Back in the early days of the PS3 scene, egohotz got all of his computers & hard drives siezed.

Personally if I had anything on a hard drive of mine that I was illegal and I was concerned about I would have it encrypted.
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.M. wrote:



Personally if I had anything on a hard drive of mine that I was illegal and I was concerned about I would have it encrypted.


And that is going to stop the police forensics team how exactly.....?

Yes, I'd possibly fit a new hard drive and set fire/smash/drown/do something with a big magnet or hide the other one. Thumbs Up
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iirc they have the power to demand the password, forgetting/refusing is admission of guilt.sure there was a huge thread on that a while back.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up to 2 years in pokey for failing to hand over encryption keys.

If the person in question thinks they're in any danger of being raided, they might as well take everything in the house that's got any kind of storage and go and sell it in the pub car park, because they won't be seeing it again either way.

They should of course only do this if they are innocent, since if they're guilty then they'd be perverting the course of justice, which would typically get them about 2 years (sound familiar?) for that kind of action.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

And how would said person know how at risk they are? Likely to get some sort of notice first, a request to come in for a chat perhaps? Or is a battering ram through the front door the notice.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can tell you as I know someone whose daughter was a victim of grooming that they will take everything that can connect to the internet plus associated stuff. My friend was a VICTIM, and they bowled up to her house with a warrant and cleaned out every PC, laptop and mobile phone in the whole household, even her printer. She was running a small business and lost her entire customer database and no amount of pleading could get it back.

More than two years later, what she got back was a pile of parts.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

J4mes wrote:
And that is going to stop the police forensics team how exactly.....?


Because they can't decrypt it...? Rolling Eyes

Encryption isn't this magical thing where law enforement agencies have secret codes to decrypt it without the key, you know.

There was one case where the FBI had this guy's hard drive for a few years trying to decrypt it and were unsuccessful.

c_dug wrote:
Iirc they have the power to demand the password, forgetting/refusing is admission of guilt.sure there was a huge thread on that a while back.


Yes I'm not sure exactly the law on that part.

Of course you could have genuinely forgotten the password. I used to have a ~60 character password which used upper case, lower case, numbers and special characters for my laptop. If I didn't use that computer for ages it would easily be forgotten.

I'm unsure on the result if they couldn't decrypt the hard drive though. They couldn't prosecute you for what's on there because they wouldn't know. Prosecution for something else, maybe. I'll have to try and read up on that one to find out more.

If Roger is correct and the sentence for not handing over encryption keys is 2 years, it could be up to the person to decide which is the lesser crime. What's on the hard drive or the 2 years. The 2 years might be the lightest punishment Thumbs Up
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
I can tell you as I know someone whose daughter was a victim of grooming that they will take everything that can connect to the internet plus associated stuff. My friend was a VICTIM, and they bowled up to her house with a warrant and cleaned out every PC, laptop and mobile phone in the whole household, even her printer. She was running a small business and lost her entire customer database and no amount of pleading could get it back.

More than two years later, what she got back was a pile of parts.


Remind me not to bother going to the pigs if some nonce has a pop at my daughter. Jesus, how fucking worthless can they get? Rolling Eyes
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) Part III wrote:
Part 3 of RIP Act gives the police powers to order the disclosure of encryption keys, or force suspects to decrypt encrypted data. Anyone who refuses to hand over a key to the police would face up to two years' imprisonment. Under current anti-terrorism legislation, terrorist suspects now face up to five years for withholding keys.


yep 2 years in the nick for not handing them over 5 if they want to label you a terrorist, been a couple of cases of it happening already.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to bring this back on topic, is there a scenario where with regard to the thread they would want to seize this persons pc?
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Otherwise there is no more reason than usual for said person to worry.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does c_dug know something we don't?
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.....
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy new hard drive for a few quid, give old one to a mate to look after.
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covent.gardens
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've got nothing to worry about dude:

c_dug wrote:
Pffft, im behind 7 proxies mofo.


Smile
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone categorically state with 100% confidence that they don't have anything illegal (kiddie porn) on their harddrives?

I know I couldn't, I've downloaded loads of stuff as whole directories, like music discographies and magazine collections that I haven't event looked through yet. I can honestly say I have no idea what is occupying several Gb of my hard drive, I've just downloaded it and not actually looked through it yet.

I'm sure most of us are in the same boat.

EDIT:

How many of us have downloaded some file from somewhere and been disappointed when we can't unrar it as we don't know there was a password or the password wasn't posted with the file? Supposedly, if the po-po did seize our drives, they could ask us to give up the password. The encryption key that we honestly don't know. We can't give up the password and go to prison Confused


Last edited by smegballs on 22:11 - 23 Nov 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

J4mes wrote:
J.M. wrote:



Personally if I had anything on a hard drive of mine that I was illegal and I was concerned about I would have it encrypted.


And that is going to stop the police forensics team how exactly.....?

They were unable to crack this spotty teenagers code so they just jailed him anyway:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11479831
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete Townshend wrote:
Can anyone categorically state with 100% confidence that they don't have anything illegal (kiddie porn) on their harddrives?
I can honestly say I have no idea what is occupying several Gb of my hard drive, I've just downloaded it and not actually looked through it yet.

I'm sure most of us are in the same boat.

Really?
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covent.gardens
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
I'm sure most of us are in the same boat.

Yep. Got some encrypted stuff from my Uni days and I knew what the password was. Then I changed it by adding some special characters, well, cos that's what computer science students are supposed to do I guess... have a good password. Then forgot what special characters I added... I have kept it all this time, and every now and then I try to have a go at guessing it!

It's a pretty bullshit situation if that is illegal... people forget passwords every day.

What if you have a fileserver or something, and someone uploads an encrypted file? How the hell are you supposed to know the password to it?

Edit: Ok, my situation not exactly the same as the one you described after re-reading, but I've also done the whole "download Gb's worth of stuff and then lose interest in it" thing.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

One person on this forum posted a picture of them dicking about on their bike on youtube which resulted in their front door being kicked in at 7am and six coppers seizing everything in the house that was either computer or motorcycle related. EVERYTHING.

It did occurr to me that the thing to do would be to have it encrypted using something like a goldkey device. Supply the password but claim to have lost the device.

All that said. The way to do illegal things on a PC in an unproveable manner is to a) Use someone elses internet connection and b) Use a live OS which only utilises your RAM. If you must store stuff, do it on a DVD that can be shredded/microwaved in an instant.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify, the hypothetical situation has nothing to do with kiddie porn, just casual downloads of films/music blah blah
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 23 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuck me .. dads what 50 odd est, scaring a 125 rider, you menstion knocking him out, well no need for that really,well might have to, but id be having words with that wtf.
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