Breaking a court order...

andym · World Chat Champion Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Karma :

Just looking for an opinion or two here, I'm not going to type out an essay or anything trying to explain all the little details...

Basically my wife won custody of her kids from their father almost 2 years ago, (after an 18 month court battle)... on the last day the kids father only asked for 1 thing... alternating Christmas' (kids go there on Christmas eve and come back boxing day).

The court had that written into the court order, and that their mum should encourage the kids to see him on a more flexible basis (rather than X day(s) from X time to X time).... she has never encouraged any of them to spend time with their father, (to be honest all I hear is her discouraging them, and bad mouthing him in front of them).

She had them last Christmas, so he should have them this Christmas... but the kids have decided that they don't want to go round there, but he had better bring their presents round on Christmas day... or else.

The youngest one said tonight that 'we don't have to go round because that's what mum said'.... I tried to explain that the courts had decided and it wasn't really up to their mum to break the order.

She has just sent off a letter to the courts, to cafcass and the kids father saying that she will not be sending the kids round 'as they don't want to spend time with him', basically.

I know that technically this is none of my business any more (although I do still have parental responsibility)... but I just think it is wrong that they have decided they don't want to see him (but still want the presents), and my wife it like 'yeah that's fine.... f**k what anyone else says'

covent.gardens · World Clap Champion Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Karma :

Don't know what'll happen, but I am with you, it's wrong. It's no surprise the kids don't want to go round because they'll pick up on their mums negativity re: their real dad and mirror it. I've got a feeling she might have just stirred up a load of hassle now because she couldn't do the right thing and follow what seems to be a reasonable court order. It depends on how the biological dad takes it (I'm expecting he'll take it badly).

Kradmelder · World Chat Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2012 Karma :

It is wrong. My x used to do the same, or lay guilt trips on them about how much she will miss them when they are at dad's, the fun they will miss out on with their cousins visiting while they are dad's etc. My kids would even repeat to some of the things to my GFs that mama said. My GFs had a stream of mama said dad is this, daddy is that. I never responded. She even said dad lives nice and doesnt give money. A blatant lie. I didnt say mama is lying. next time I transferred money and the boy was watching and asked what I am doing, i said sending money to mama.

Breaking a court order is a serious offence. Here it is contempt of court. A criminal offence and the state prosecutes you, not the other partner.

Poisoning the kids is another serious offence. The kids are sent to a child shrink and if it is proven, it is grounds to have the kids removed from the parent doing the poisoning. the courts rule that it is not in the best interests of the child and the charge is denying the kids a father/mother and damaging the children. Since it is not in the interests of the child, the kids are made ward of the court and trasnferred to the other parent. Dont know what your law says about that. In my case, the shrink had evidence of it after talking to the kids and their mother, submitted a report and her lawyer advised her she is digging a deep hole where she will be denied the children and access to them only under supervision.

For you, if her x contests on the grounds of malicious interference on her part your family may be going the route of the head shrinkers, and the kids with.

From what you say, she has the same attitude as my x: contemptuous of the courts and the law, contemptuous of anyone else's rights but hers. Mine would openly say men have no rights when it comes to kids. It will not be to difficult for a shrink or a lawyer to demonstrate this as they will give her a jab and her true colours will come out. She may claim they dont want to see their father, but a shrink will quickly see that they say that to please mama, and the shrink will notice a change in behaviour with mama and when talked to alone. If dad also goes in and the shrink sees there is a good relationship, the game is up for mama. That is in essence what happened to me. Shrink wrote 'it is obvious kids have a good relationship with their father and express a desire to be with him, which is in conflict to what the mother says'. All I was asked to do was come in, and just play with them. The shrink then proceeded to inform me abou parental alienation, how I would feel about taking the kids. I said i dont want to take them from their mother. She then said you dont understand, it is not about what you want or think. The courts will award them to you. She also told me my daughter said straight she wants her father, in direct contradiction to what mama said, but my son was more closed mouthed, afraid of what mama would say if he spoke out.

So I guess you are caught in it, and if you care for the kids you need to reign her in or you are heading down a road where the biggest losers will be the kids. Your wife is treading in dangerous waters.
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Zen Dog · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Karma :

Kradmelder · World Chat Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2012 Karma :

nowhere.elysium · The Pork Lord Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Karma :

Why are you still married to this toxic lump, anyway? You've posted enough threads about how much of a useless human being she is to keep Jeremy Kyle in business for the next decade already.
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Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

WannaBeDude · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2011 Karma :

Fucking bitch/
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Kradmelder · World Chat Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2012 Karma :

andym · World Chat Champion Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Karma :

Hmmm... OK I'll try to answer all in no particular order....

Covdude... for once I actually agree with you.

Rogerborg... It is the very same lazy manipulative nutcase and her squawling feral offspring... I am free of their clutches but as nowhere.elysium has pointed out... I am still married to it, and I thought what she is doing is wrong and I wanted an opinion to see if I was just being petty.

covent.gardens... It's hard to explain, but the kids are happier with their mum as she lets them away with anything, makes excuses for them. So they only want to see their dad to get stuff from him (birthdays, christmas etc), but don't want to spend time with him.... or as she says they are only kids, he's not making an effort to see them.

Kradmelder, when he had custody of them (about 7 years), he would stop them seeing their mum, but at least he had the sense to contact social services first and mention sexual abuse.... so everyone was always in favour of him stopping contact.... but at the end of the day, everything he done went against him because of the psychological damage it was/had doing/done to the kids. He knew he had no chance at the court and she would get anything she wanted, so all he asked was for alternating Christmas', which she said she would need to ask the kids, but the judge said this was the adults decision, not the kids (that's why we were there in the first place after all)

Easter Bunny · World Chat Champion Joined: 20 Aug 2010 Karma :

what a fucking mess two people can make of childrens lives Thumbs Down

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nowhere.elysium · The Pork Lord Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Karma :

WannaBeDude · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2011 Karma :

Fuck the whole sad lot of them, loss courses - concentrate on your remaining life. Rolling Eyes

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Kradmelder · World Chat Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2012 Karma :

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

And that's the problem, Andy is the sort of decent, responsible bloke who will man up and try and fix things even when they're not his problem.

The world needs people like him, but there are far better recipients for that philanthropy than Waynetta and her brood. That sort tends to bite the hand that feeds them.
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yaigi · World Chat Champion Joined: 28 Jul 2012 Karma :

It really pisses me off when people who are supposedly adults bad mouth the other parent in front of the kids. Give your kids the fucking right to make their own mind up. My mum and Dad split when I was three. Not once in my life have i EVER heard my mum say a bad word about my Dad. Only through asking my older siblings do I know why they even split up as I was far too young to remember. It has meant that I probably have a much more balanced opinion of my Dad than I perhaps would have if my mum had spent my childhood badmouthing him.

They got back together when I was 12, imagine how awkward that would have been if I had grown up hating him!? Haha!
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.Chris. · World Chat Champion Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Karma :

nowhere.elysium · The Pork Lord Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Karma :

Zen Dog · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Karma :

Kradmelder · World Chat Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2012 Karma :

andym · World Chat Champion Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Karma :

OK I had to do the whole read the page and type in notepad for this reply....

Eggs Benedict, the kids were basically stolen from their mother about 7-8 years ago (roughly), they had a strong emotional bond to her, so their father was the one damaging them all those years, now it seems she has turned into him... and the kids agree with everything she says.

Kradmelder, unfortunately I do feel guilty about a lot of things, with this whole situation, I'm still made to feel like I am the one who has done wrong (constantly), I don't have hundreds of friends reassuring me that's not the case, I don't have family I can whinge to constantly, I don't feel the need to broadcast every little thing on facebook to stir up shit... I have me, I have my flat and my thoughts... why do I feel guilty for them... because I'm the one that talked her into taking him back to court to try for shared custody of the kids. I thought that a lot of the stuff he had said in the past must have been bullshit... after they all turned against me, I started to see just how much of it was actually true.

Rogerborg, thanks... I think. Unfortunately I do try to be helpful, I'd do anything for anyone (which has got me into trouble in the past), usually I am the one left with the shit at the end of the day... but for some reason I still never learn my lesson.... I may just get a doormat tattooed on my forehead lol

Yaigi, I think part of the problem is the kids having too much say with their mum (because she still feels guilty about them being taken away all them years ago)... so it's pretty much what the kids say, goes *dons the curly wig, boot polish to the face and puts on my best Samuel Jackson voice*, 'and they will strike down with GRRREEEAAATTT VENGANCE AND FUUUUUURIOUS ANGER THOSE WHO ATTEMPT TO SAY OTHERWISE', they are all as bad as each other, anybody who disagrees, does anything or says anything wrong gets the wrath of the family and friends.

.Chris., it was exactly that kind of thing that contributed to the change in residency of the kids, but now the kids are stirring up the shit as much as their mum, and if they are interviewed again for the courts, then it will just look bad on their father even more.

nowhere.elysium, see the comment about the doormat tattoo on the forehead.

Zen Dog, again see the comment about the kids joining in with the shit stirring.

At the end of the day, as I said, this really has nothing to do with me, I can't change their minds, but for her to break the court order because she has told the kids 'they don't need to go and see him' is just wrong to me

nowhere.elysium · The Pork Lord Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Karma :

I'd just get on and file for divorce. Nothing you say or do is going to improve things, and the last thing you want is to attract the attentions of that miserable lot again.
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Alpha-9 · Super Spammer Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Karma :

+1 for divorce
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Kradmelder · World Chat Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2012 Karma :

scorps · World Chat Champion Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Karma :

I never badmouthed my daughters father, he waved them off when they were four and seven and I moved abroad. They always knew where he lived and when they were older they asked me if I could give them his details, I did, the father who then went all emotional about meeting them made the fatal mistake of badmouthing me. he has never seen them again as they were old enough to decide for themselves that he was a lazy wanker. I never had a penny off him when I kicked him out. Not all mothers are bitches.
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