Thermostats, Timers, burst pipes and heaters.

[pa_broon74]

I have a question.

We have a hall, about the size of a tennis court say, at one end there are toilets, at the other a kitchen and a store room. Above is a shallow loft which is insulated.

The mains water supply comes in at the kitchen and the water supply for the toilets goes away down the hall in the loft, the pipes are lagged but they switch the power off at the main switch (which bugs my tits) so the hall in winter becomes an ice box.

I need to either put heaters (in the bogs, main hall and kitchen) on a timer or a thermostat, twice in the past five years the pipes have burst meaning a new ceiling was required and gear is ruined.

Normally we drain the system (its just taps, no heating to speak off) but its a ball-ache because we do use it over the cold snap and end up having to refill then empty again. I'd prefer to keep the building heated anyway (its becoming damp and musty) but how would you do it? (Its in use three evenings a week sometimes more depending on the time of year.)

There are halogen heaters on the walls which are switched on to heat the place up, they're really bright so cause problems if people are staying over. I can fit some cheap fan heaters on a timer to go on for a minute or two every half hour, I don't think a thermostat would work what with the size of the main hall and the smaller rooms. I just need some background heat in the place to keep it above freezing.

Any ideas much appreciated?
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Didn't catch anything.

[scorps]

take Donald trump captive, he blows enough hot air you could probably have hot water as well as heating.................that didnt really help did it
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[pa_broon74]

[stinkwheel]

Trace heating sounds like what you want for the pipes in any case.

What about greenhouse heaters to keep the frost off?
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[cagiva gezzer]

Trace heat the pipes to stop the freezing and use some form of space heating to warm up the hall when required.

Edit.. too slow.
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"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[pa_broon74]

[stinkwheel]

My grandads greenhouse heaters were gas fired and electric.

Carbon Monoxide might be an issue though.

The bogs at our work have an electric frost heater in them. Kicks in at 5 degrees I believe.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Walloper]

Most simplest solution is off the water, as you are doing. then run the taps dry.
Of heat the hall.

Or frost protection that involves running the heating for an hour or two during really cold snaps. It's not usually freezing every day of the month and it usually heats up above freezing during the day.

It's going to be a cost or a hassle.

I think most domestic thermostats only go as low as 7 C which would be expensive to heat a hall when you only need 3-4 Deg.
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[pa_broon74]

[stinkwheel]

[Walloper]

[pa_broon74]

This might be a daft question...

The thermostat pictured (for example) you basically have a temp sensor, when tripped, it actuates a switch?

Can I run, say, three 1Kw fan heaters of it? I think that would be enough to take the chill out the building. (I have no idea how thermostats are wired in, central heating is like a washing machine to me: which is to say, completely incomprehensible.)

Thanks
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[janner_10]

What sort of heating do you have at the moment?

Depending on which you can utilise on of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FROST-STAT-THERMOSTAT-TEMPERATURE-CONTROL-WALL-MOUNTING-INTERIOR-/261137151049?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item3cccfcb449&_uhb=1
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[pa_broon74]

[stinkwheel]

[janner_10]

As Stinkwheel said - the stat will not switch that much current, I doubt it would do one, stat contacts are only about 2 or 3 amps.

Trace heating is looking like your best and easiest bet.

That said you could control all heaters with the one stat if they all come from the same DB and nothing else was on it or install a bank of contactors, again you are starting to talk money and time to install it and it is hardly bespoke.

Try this link:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOILER-CONDENSATE-ANTI-FREEZE-TRACE-HEATER-KIT-/121030172071?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&var&hash=item1c2df5dda7&_uhb=1

Looks like £99 for 10m so £300 for 30m worth, with little effort to install is probably the best solution.
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Yamaha FZS600 (Now gone to heaven) > CBR600F4i (SOLD) > '99 YZF-R1

[drzsta]

Could Use a frost stat to knock a contactor on for your heaters assuming they are on separate circuit to your sockets.

May be worth looking into some storage heaters in the future (not as a solution to burst pipes) but just to generally keep the chill and damp smell out of the building .
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[stinkwheel]

Bingo.

Someone had to make one.



Plug-in frost thermostat.

Or if you wanted it hardwired, they do make High current, wall mounted frost stats that take up to 16A. A Sunvic TLM2257 would seen to be the item of choice.

Bearing in mind that I'm a vet, not an elecrician or heating engineer. If it were me and you've discounted the idea of trace heating, I'd get several of those tubular frost heaters and hook them into a new, seperately fused spur off the consumer unit.

I'd have them wired up so they can only be switched on through the frost-stat so people can't fiddle and turn them on all the time.

So On/off switch:
https://www.mhelec.co.uk/ekmps/shops/mhconsole/images/get-20ax-dp-switch-neon-207-p.png
Connected to a 16A frost 'stat:
https://www.reid-electrical.co.uk/sites/reid/images/cat/products/TLM2802.jpg
Connected to an appropriate number of tubular heaters:
https://www.alertelectrical.com/uploads/prod/7_1323_e.jpg

All that said. Do that and you have to get it checked and signed off by a sparkie. Use a plug-in 'stat and you don't.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Ariel Badger]

[lukamon]

My dad has one of those heaters. It's a lightbulb in a tube.
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[pa_broon74]

That plug in frost stat looks like it might do the job.

We just need to keep a back ground heat in the building, not necessarily for when its in use (they can turn the halogen heaters on for a bit.)

The reason I discount the trace heating is because (from memory,) there are at least four pipes between the water tank and the immersion tank (at the top of the hall) and the toilets (at the bottom of the hall.) The immersion is never turned on, I'm not even sure it works but it still supplies water to the hot taps via an electric heater that the previous numpty treasurer guy installed (even although the immersion heater seemed to have started working again, I think there was an air lock some where although, I'm still not sure.)

The trace heating would only deal with the forzen pipe issue too, I'd quite like to heat the hall a bit too.

So, with that plug-in frost thermostat, its rated to 3kw, I can put one 1kw in each of the toilets (there are ancient bar heaters on the wall that haven't worked for years, I'd just replace them with small fan heaters) and one in the main hall. I'd need to install another plug point for the frost sensor somewhere sensible though, if I use an existing plug, they're all at ground level, the heaters would never be off, if I put it in the loft, again, the heaters would be on all the time, (there is insulation in the loft.)

Ideally, it would in the centre of the hall on the ceiling but I don't see how I can do that, its just an expanse of cheap plasterboard. I'll figure something out no doubt.

I think that would be the cheapest way to do it. The hall was built in 1960 but nothing has been done to it, all the electrics are original (it needs rewired completely to be honest but we don't have the money for it.)

Thanks again for the info, that plug-in frost thermostat is a good find.


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Didn't catch anything.

[pa_broon74]

[Ariel Badger]

Cheaper than calling out the plumber to fix the burst!
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