Parking ticket in a private car park

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Mrs Wafer Thin Ham's got a parking ticket from "Town and City Parking Limited" for allegedly parking an inch over the line of the bay. Standard £60, reduced to £30 if you pay their bribe early.

What's the score with these now. Since it's a private car park and a private company you used to be able to ignore them, and get away with it to a degree, but the law changed in Oct 2012.

What's the deal now?

Shall I just tell her to ignore the threatening letters and see them in court to collect their £60, or just pay their £30 bribe now for the quiet life?

I can't see how they can justify a bribe of £30 for allegedly parking over two bays. Especially as the car park was free to park in for 2 hours, and the other bay was still usable.
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[Tungtvann]

https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=135459f0f8f0656e62fcc1020f66c43d&showtopic=46975

This post has been updated to reflect recent changes.

[Joncrete Cungle]

Ignore same as before. POFA 2012 imho changed very little apart from banning clamping on private car parks. Look up pepipoo and ignore Town and City parking. A private company can not fine anyone, don't let the good lady be fooled otherwise by any threat o grams you probably will get in the post.

Town and City parking limited are very unlikely to have sufficient interest in the land to be able to form contracts with motorists. (See HMRCv VCS) https://www.tribunals.gov.uk/financeandtax/Documents/decisions/vehicle_control_services_v_hmrc.pdf On a free car park the landowners losses are £0.00. Their charges don't relate to any costs they might have incurred in putting a speculative invoice on your car. (See VCS v Ibbotson) https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=16231

You can let them waste the costs of postage sending you threat o grams or appeal. I prefer to ignore everything except real court papers. I don't think TCP really 'do' court anyhow off the top of my head.

Please note if you do pay these speculative invoices. My terms and conditions for reading my posts on https://www.bikechatforums.com are that you pay me £30 for every post you read. If you do not pay me I will send Korn £2.50 to buy details of your IP address. I will then send you my speculative invoices to your home for breaking my terms and conditions of reading my posts on BCF. Reading my posts constitutes acceptance of this contract and your agreement to pay my Post Read Charges of £30 per post.

Failure to pay my demands in 14 days may lead me to engage the services of either the sharpest legal mind in all of Solihull or Mr Michael Sobell t/a Graham White Solicitors to commence legal action against you. This could affect your credit rating and ability to obtain credit in the future.

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Fair, I suspected this may well be the case. At least it wasn't council controlled.

Is it even worth sending them a letter as outlined on money saving expert stating that the charge is disproportionate, and she shan't be paying, short of a court order?https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets#check

Don't suppose anyone knows if the TCP thugs use digital cameras?
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[Joncrete Cungle]

Seriously if it is a private ticket on a 'free' car park ignore it. IF you are one of the 49 out of 550,000 who do get real court papers join pepipoo for help in defending yourself. NB out of the 49 non payers put before a judge the Private Parking Companies lost 25 cases.

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Cool.
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[cimbian]

Lucky it didn't get keyed-up.
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Current: Moto Guzzi 1100 Breva. Previous: Honda XL650V TransAlp
Bearded, Balding, Born again Buddhist Biker

[monkeymark]

I've had two from the very same company.
Just ignore them. You get 4 or 5 letters. First saying the charge is increasing then offering a "special" price to resolve the issue.

Don't even bother getting in touch as they will hound you then.
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[Speed]

Just ignore them. I wish i did at the time. Ended up paying out for 4 fines all within a couple of months until the bike was nicked and the copper investigating it told me that they are not worth the paper they are written on, only council fines are to pay.

[monkeymark]

[Rogerborg]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Rogerborg]

Up until now, she'd have been liable for the actual losses to the owner of the land, i.e. none in this case.

That may have changed, but it's still vanishingly unlikely that the ghouls would be able to show a court that they're owed anything at all.

Just don't do anything daft like respond to them before an actual court summons hits your mat.
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[pa_broon74]

I'm currently collecting tickets from a company called P4 Parking ltd, I'm in Scotland though where they aren't enforceable at all. I reckon I'll stop at a dozen then enter into a David Thornesque dialogue with them over non-payment.

Its winter, in Scotland, you have to take your entertainment when you find it.

Not sure what the situation is in England, not sure its changed overly in terms of ticketing. The difference is as I understand it, in Scotland you can't put a sign up and then fine people for parking, contracts aren't assumed in Scot's law so fall down at that point.

I understand contract law in England is different as is the method by which these 'penalty charges' would be collected... As someone has already said, I'd ignore everything unless it comes from a magistrates court. Even the DVLA seem to be farming their fines out (SORN etc) to civilian debt collection set ups and TVL are rubbish, they don't have a leg to stand on these days.


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Didn't catch anything.

[Joncrete Cungle]

[Walloper]

[st3v3]

Man, you let the chick drive - and...
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Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done

[map]

First I'd ask was it on the line?
If so, then using tennis if it's on the line then it's in.
Even using football has to be all the way over the line to be out.
https://www.football-football-football.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/out-of-play-football.gif

I mention this as some of the car parks in York have really small spaces (= maximum revenue). Looks like painted in the 60s and sized for Morris Minors and Minis. So not really designed for modern people carriers and 4x4. Talked once to one of the parking enforcers and they confirmed if on the line it's in the bay even though it might make it harder for other vehicle to open their doors or even car get in/out.

On the whole I'd say ignore but I think under new rules it's like a NIP, you need to tell them who was driving (as said above, best check current thinking on the likes of pepipoo though).

Best of luck, keep thread alive and post updates
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[Joncrete Cungle]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[colin1]

some company attempted to get me to give them money after i accidentally parked in a disabled bay at sainsburys. Their argument was that by parking there, I had entered into a legal agreement with them as there was a sign. I did not pay and nothing has ever happened to me.

When my car was taken due to a similar situation, I of course had to pay the thieves to recover my vehicle. I considered Hetzer-style revenge but then realised I couldn't be arsed.
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[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

First threatogram.

Notice the wording regarding naming the actual driver, seems almost polite, which is unusual.
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[Rogerborg]

I'd take them up on the offer to contact the ICO.

The DPA allows disclosure of your details for:

the prevention or detection of crime;
the capture or prosecution of offenders; and
the assessment or collection of tax or duty

I wonder, on what grounds did the DVLA provide your details?

Is parking slightly over the line trespass?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Joncrete Cungle]

A number of people on pepipoo have complained about the release of their data by the DVLA to parasites under spurious circumstances. ICO doesn't appear to be arsed.