Recommend a budget welder.

[monkeymark]

I intend to start a project next year that will require some welding/re-welding.
I can get plenty to practice on and know someone who can check the welds are good.

I just need some suggestions of budget welders please. I don't want to spend more than necessary (times are tight and all) but I don't want to get one only to find it's not suitable.

I've seen ones in the likes of Aldi very cheap, but don't know what they are like.

Any ideas? Suggested makes/models, things to look for (i.e. minimum Amps)?

All help greatly appreciated.
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Specialist in percussion engineering: The art of hitting something till it works.

[lihp]

Are you going to be welding fish fingers with it?

[miles]

what are you planning to weld?

[monkeymark]

[Walloper]

[jjdugen]

Go to your local Machine Mart and talk to the guys there. Once you have a good idea of the kind of welder you will need, keep your eye on the 'Bay for something suitable.
Having the ability and equipment to weld is a core skill if you are interested in building and repairing. For sure, non structural work does not take inordinate amounts of skill, but I, too, would advise on proper training if you are thinking of working on frames
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The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?

[monkeymark]

[symonh2000]

My dad has a Clarke Turboweld 130TE

I am pretty sure they are still available for not a huge amount.. His one is around 20 years old, and is still going strong.

Whatever you get though I would recommend at least 100A on a Mig set, as it allows more flexibility.


I used to do Mig welding for a living, and we had 3 Phase sets, which were great to use. A single phase set won't be as versatile or be as easy to use but they are perfectly ok for occasional home use.
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Four strokes is two strokes too many.

[MarJay]

The question, as always, is MIG, TIG or Arc.

First off, Arc welders are the cheap ones. There is a reason for that, they are designed to weld bits of ship hulls, wrought iron gates and other similar things. They produce relatively poor quality welds in both strength and look, and I wouldn't trust it to weld a motorcycle frame.

MIG is an electrical welder that shields the spark with an inert gas (hence Metal Inert Gas). This is generally Argon, and you need to have a contract with the British Oxygen Company to get an argon bottle and be able to refill it. This sounds like a hassle, and it is, but its probably worth it. On a MIG welder you generally have a spool of wire that is effectively your welding rod. Pulling the trigger on the welder not only initates the spark with an electric current, but it also triggers the flow of the shield gas and spools out the wire. Its pretty easy, its a little easier than Arc welding and a lot easier than TIG welding. MIG sets are mid priced.

Then there's TIG welding. You can't really MIG weld alloy, so if you want to weld anything other than steel you ideally want a TIG set. TIG is very much like MIG only there is no wire. Instead you have a tungsten electrode on the end of it which is shielded by Argon gas again (hence Tungsten Inert Gas). You need to use seperate welding rods, but the advantage of this is you don't need to change the spool of wire if you want to change between different types of rod (for example to use alloy rods).

TIG is a bit more fiddly because you need to hold the electrode in the right spot and feed in the welding rod. This all has to be done at the right speed, and with the right current going through it. Getting this right is an art, but it is very satisfying when it is done. TIG will do finer welds, and better quality and can do alloy etc but is a lot harder to get right and does take a bit of practise. TIG sets are very expensive compared to MIG and ARC.

If I were you I'd buy a reasonable MIG set and get a contract with a welding supplier for some Argoshield. It won't do super neat welds without a little practice, but its easier to use than a TIG set.

I'm not sure why I bothered to respond to this because there are a LOT of people on this forum who claim to be welding experts and will all come in and shoot my advice down in flames. Some will tell you that Arc welding is OK (It isn't for anything you need to trust IMO) and some will tell you that you probably shouldn't weld at all unless you're an expert. Meh, I did welding as part of my Mechanical Engineering course at University, and that was what I was taught so they can do that if they wish. I probably won't be bothered to argue.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[cimbian]

I think yours was a good reply MarJey. I used to weld quite a lot and learnt it as part of my apprenticeship.

The TIG action you describe is quite similar to gas welding in that you use a filler-rod. The technique takes a bit of learning but an evening-school class would sort out most people quite quickly. TIG would be my option but it is more pricey, as you say. If TIG is too dear then MIG at the minimum IMHO.

Standard arc welding was alright back in the day and was how me and a mate built our F2 Superstox but is really quite 'agricultural' these days.

I'd not ask the MachineMart guys myself as most I've spoken to are a danger to themselves with a screwdriver. Find a local trade supplier and speak to them would be my advice.
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22PlusY
Current: Moto Guzzi 1100 Breva. Previous: Honda XL650V TransAlp
Bearded, Balding, Born again Buddhist Biker

[uberkron]

I use an arc welder regularly, i get reasonable welds but i have a few boiler maker friends that do the ones that matter with their big mig and tig machines. Any welder that plugs into a ten amp wall socket may struggle, getting a suitable power point fitted is a good investment depending on how your dwelling is wired.

Oh yeahi took an arrow to the knee and can no longer weld to four thou, only six thou, upside down in space.
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i ride a zip 50 2smoke. It overtakes a hundred times a day.

[mentalboy]

[robocog]

TLDR
£30 - 50 Aldi/LIDL/cheap ARC welder
will blow holes / splatter all over the place / if your lucky leave ugly as sin fat high beads or bird poop splatters depending on how good you get you aim and consistancy at feeding rod

MIG £150 - £skys the limit
Will be neater once machine is setup for the thicness of material and you get your hand in by practicing

TIG - damned expensive to get setup with - but if you get OK at it you will be glad you didn't bother with the 2 above methods

One off project - save yourself the heartache and expense and get someone else to do the welding

If its something you are genuinely interested in and not just for this one off project- try all 3 (as well as gas if its available) at nightschool or the chap who would inspect your welds if he has gear available

See how they are all more suited to jointing different metals and are all subtly different and take it from there
Beware it can be a slippery slope - I have found myself addicted to tinkering



The long version......

I recently got given a DC TIG
(heavy old transformer with HF start)
It was broken and the chap gave it to me as payment for a job I did as he was never going to get round to having a look let alone being able to repair

I managed to get it working - and it has cost me quite a lot of money...but a lot less than getting even a second hand equivalent

Before this I only really ever did MIG

I can honestly say I have not touched my MIG since and can't see why I would ever use it again

The welds you get with TIG are far nicer and a lot more satisfying and IME a lot easier to get right and a lot more predicatble...maybe its down to the machines though to an extent?? (MIG I have is a cheapy 130 amp Clarke and the ARC is an old buzz box that would have cost £40 new)

I would say I was only OK at MIG...capable of joining metals...maybe not the neatest...but not had any of my handywork break on the kit car yet or any of my other projects
The MIG only has a few power settings and I always felt that juggling wire speed and power was always a compromise

My TIG is a 165 amp model and will run off a 13a plug as long as the power isn't wound up to max
The power level is very adjustable

I have not yet needed to go above 1/3 rd of the way amps wise (no fancy display just numbers printed next to the knob) and it has joined stainless 4mm thick and given seemingly good/adequate penetration

Gas and other consumables are more expensive than with MIG or ARC

The real bonus with TIG I find
No need to grind down afterwards and you are left in no real doubt that you have fused the metals as intended - or not (which can sometimes be a hidden case with MIG)
When you get it looking like neatly stacked pennies you will not want to paint over it or hide it
(hence my recent love affair with stainless)

If its on view TIG is a clear winner

All I can suggest is find someone local with one and have a play...you may surprise yourself as I did

If your handywork with one turns out bad - keep trying - my first attempts were not great from the off - and I had a mate who is very good at TIG come over and help get the machine setup and give handy pointers...which made things gel very quickly
I wasted a full bottle (not hobby sized either) of argon just joining bits/scraps of metal as practice

There's plenty of tutorials out there that are worth digesting

IMHO ARC is very unsuitable and MIG is not the most suited of methods for frames or thin sheet - not saying it can't be done...just not what I would choose now I have the option of TIG
(I have repaired a frame with MIG and used brazing/silver solder on bicycle frames before on non critical repairs/mods)

TIG looks the mutts nuttz when you get it right
If you don't think you are capable of getting it right (after trying on similar thickness sheets) then give the job to someone who will be - would work out cheaper than buying gear and regretting not being able to put it to good use

If your local ish to me (Portsmouth) you are welcome to come and fuse metal using all metal melting techniques I have available (MIG, TIG, ARC and gas) and see for yourself

Regards
Rob
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Needs a bigger garage...

[base]

The amount of bullshit spouted about welders in this thread is quite epic................................realistically for what you want to achieve with the given information is that a AC/DC TIG is what would fill your requirements prepare to be shocked on a price of a half decent tig.

Arc and Mig have their place and are very good at what they do however they are not suited for fabrication of or to motorcycle parts .

MarJay stated Arc is basically crap all round.....IMO you are wrong infact I have Used Arc on alot of outdoor agriculture implements etc without failure.

[robocog]

If its only steel then a DC TIG would be fine - no need for expensive or complex gear - HF start is nice - but not 100% required- ditto for slope down and post flow

A TIG torch with gas valve in the handle would work on a cheap DC inverter at a push - wasteful gas wise - yes - but workable

Sure AC would be a bonus if there's any ally to do...but I guessed it would only be mild or perhaps stainless he was going to be playing with??

If its ally it simplifies what I would suggest to the OP - let someone else (experienced) do it

I keep bottling out of sinking any money into an AC set and wouldn't till I had tried and succeeded using someone else s expensive equipment

AC/DC inverter sets with HF start and lots of twiddlys can be had cheap enough from China (£500 ish) - and some of the re-worked china with warranty ones in the UK are not that expensive (certainly sub £800) and will work on a 13a socket happy enough from what I gather

Gas - I paid something like £180 for 3 years bottle rental and refills on pure Argon is circa £30 IIRC

AC TIG seems VERY expensive to get setup with and does not look at all easy

DC TIG can be setup pretty cheaply (comparatively) and I would not say its any harder or any more unforgiving than MIG
(IMO TIG is a LOT easier if working on thin stuff and I'm a TIG newb)

Regards
Rob
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Needs a bigger garage...

[i.p.phrealy]

I have a no gas MIG welder that I bought 18 years ago, I welded a friend's footpeg back on after an off, the front of my old Escort back together and the seat frame of my old Mondeo. did the job, but didn't look as good as TIG welds do.
The no gas ones use special wire so you don't need to use a gas bottle.
Get some decent gloves when welding, ALWAYS use a mask and don't do any welding when wearing shorts as it will hurt
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it is impossible to lick your own elbow...
and if you just tried you need professional help.
Finally allowed a big bike 19/03/14!

[robocog]

Don't ignore the warning ref exposed skin whilst welding

This foooking hurt - a lot
I was walking bandy legged for a long time and surprised how little exposure it took to do the damage
was crouched down close in over the work wearing shorts so those burns almost went as far as my ballsack

Only really had arc eye the once - and will never be stupid enough to get it again through stupidity or lazyness - again it fooking hurts and there was nowt the hospital could really do
I was wearing a flip down lid at the time
(in a very small unlit shed with white walls)

I do admit to being stupid enough to using the shut eyes method whilst tacking things up - and one head nod to flip the mask down at strikeup that ended in epic fail as the lid hit the piece I was working on meaning I had my eyes wide open - adjusted to the dark shed whilst I struck the arc VERY close to my open eyes staring directly at the plasma ball for a split second before realising something was VERY wrong and releasing the trigger.
That mixed with reflections from the weeny shed

Wasn't till a few hours later I paid for this bad combination of mistakes

Auto darkening helmets have come down to sensible prices - mine was only a cheapy but it has lasted many years so far and now means I no longer have to adjust it/flip it or stuggle to see whats going on whilst setting up - negating some of the risk I am exposed to
Not had the unit fail to auto darken on me yet and no arc eye since the purchase ...which is nice


Regards
Rob
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Needs a bigger garage...

[monkeymark]

Thanks for all the help, lots of information there.

I was never too keen on arc, so really that ones out of the window. Id rather be confident that the welds will hold.

I would prefer TIG but think that one may be too expensive for me in the current circumstances, though i may move onto that one later.

As for MIG, i may have a plan.
I can get my hands on a Clarke Pro 90, possibly for free.
They seem to think it is stuck with regards to the power setting so i may see if someone in our engineering department will take a look at it for me, though i don't personally know anyone in there so not sure if they will but it cant hurt to ask.
It has a small hobby bottle on it but no flow meter. Can anyone point me in the direction of what to get as i don't know with regards to flow meters and bottles?

May have an auto dark mask with it too.

If i can get this working then it will do me for now and the money i save can go towards a TIG in the future should i choose to.
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Specialist in percussion engineering: The art of hitting something till it works.

[Pete.]

For the home hobbyist you can't really go wrong with a mig wleder, it's just the gas that hurts. I spent over £120 on bottle rental without using it once so sent the bottle back and sold the welder for I think £70. It's cheaper for me to pay someone to do it than pay the bottle rental for occasional weld - otherwise we have a lovely 3-phase mig at work I can use.

In my workshop I have a small oil-cooled stick welder that performs very nicely and takes care of any small jobs I have to do on the hurry-up. The only place I really miss the mig is when I have to remove a broken flush stud.

Anyone who thinks that arc welding is lacking in strength is joking - they are used for very serious structural work. Not your hobby set though.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[kestrel]

[robocog]

Gas -
you working indoors (in a workshop) or outdoors?

Outdoors you may need to turn the rate up a bit more if theres a breeze

Flow rates - you want to be using about 10L per minute (indoors and no wind )

Those small bottles are basically a rip off if you intend doing anything more than a very small amount and it wouldn't take that many purchases before it works out a lot cheaper than just getting a big bottle and reg

You will go through these small bottles a LOT and have head some complaints they aren't always as full as they should be

I skipped this part with my MIG

You can use carbon dioxide (pub gas) from a big bottle if you know someone with a pub.... (it's what I started with)
The regulator will cost about £20 - I am a fan of the "pea in a stick" flowmeter as it shows how much is flowing as accurately as you need and are a good visual that its flowing - the flow rate is easily adjusted using this style

carbon dioxide will be fine for practicing laying beads and joining bits o metal (in fact its all I used up till moving house)
Proper carbon argon mix does make welds a little less splattery IMO - and seemingly a bit cooler
But not worth turning down cheap pub gas if available/offered

Failing knowing someone in the pub game ask at your local indipendant weld mrechants (not BOC!)

I took out a 3 year contract with a local welding shop £71
MIG gas refills are a couple of pence under £20 and they last a long time
When the 3 years is up If I surrender the bottle I get the bottles deposit back (£35??)
I have of course not done this and just renewed (in fact took out an additional contract with them for Pure Argon for the TIG set)

To me its a bargain and worth having at that price

Compared to BOC who required silly monthly rentals that were totally out of this hobbyists budget

I use MIG TIG ARC in Pompey
There are lots of indipendent gas retaillers out there doing similar deals for us hobbyists

MIG is good - take someone who knows about them along if looking (or do some reading up first)
migwelding.co.uk is a good resource to look at and has some good info/tutorials on there
(they cover more than just MIG as well)
There are also some really helpful chaps on the forum there who will be able to offer sound advice


Regards
Rob
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Needs a bigger garage...

[cimbian]

Nothing wrong with the strength of arc welding (stick welding) and it held our Superstox together very nicely. I can't recall a single weld failing even though it is a full-contact sport; however, even with a lot of practice it could never be called 'pretty'.

It is also probably the hardest to actually control and is a fine-line between getting a full penetration weld and blowing holes through the work.

A good angle-grinder helps too... pre- and post-weld
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22PlusY
Current: Moto Guzzi 1100 Breva. Previous: Honda XL650V TransAlp
Bearded, Balding, Born again Buddhist Biker

[kramdra]

MIG is the way to go, used sets go for around £60 on ebay. I have a sealey mighty mig 130XT, that cost me exactly that.
www.mig-welding.co.uk is the place to be asking. Doesnt take much time to learn - most of that is the settings.

You will also require:
Gloves - £5
Autodark helmet £15
wire - £15

I recommend you replace the tip on the gun if its used and needs to match wire size. £2
you may need to replace other stuff like liner...

recommend using TIG welding gloves, they are thinner, & so give less heat protection.

Gasless wire gives me good results. Id recommend it, the added cost of bottles is crazy and then you need somewhere safe to keep them. Atleast try it while practising on scrap, then decide if you really need bottles.

[Vincent]

Apologies if mentioned already but don't frames tend to warp and distort when you start welding them? Don't you need a jig of some sorts?

When you get a new welder OP, try and get a bag of patience with it
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[mysterious_rider]