America....

[U_W v2.0]

So erm, I know im not one to really talk about living on minimum wage and everything,

But what the fuck is wrong with teh americans? It's always "you cant live on your own on minimum wage" when for fuck sakes people do it all the time!
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[yaigi]

[h00dwink]

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[Derivative]

The federal minimum wage in the US was $7.25 last I checked.
That's 4.49GBP. Or, 25% less than ours.

If you're in a job with tips, it's around $2. Your employer is supposed to top-up the difference if you don't get enough tips - do you suppose that actually happens?

Now, of course, that might not be especially relevant for a multitude of reasons - lower cost of living, higher benefits, etcetera.

But I do think that life in the US for those of low means is much worse than the equivalent in the UK.

[Frost]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

So in georgia it's $5.15, which is £3.20. So if you live in a city, you're pretty fucked

[Benno]

I think the federal minimum wage is roughly 1000 USD/month, which equates to £620/month.

Some quick mental arithmetic suggests I would probably manage to live off that and maybe able to save some as well. Living in a shared house helps cut costs significantly and being a student I don't spend a lot on commuting or other work related costs.

The problem in the US is with those in the service industry, like waiters and bar staff. The problem is tipping. You have to tip everywhere you go in the US, it's a ridiculous wage system.
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[yaigi]

[Benno]

[J.M.]

We could make room for you Yaigi

Benno, what bike is it that you ride again/where abouts on campus are you? I wonder if I've ever seen you around

Regards to money a month... I currently live happily on £600 a month which includes rent, bills, food, petrol and going out. Next year will be cheaper as the house is cheaper.

Housemates are all good. Currently living with a French biker (mechanic on a friend's racing team, which did the le mans 24hr race before), a Spanish biker and a cute midwife. There was a French girl too but she found a job up north and left. House is always tidy as cleaners come in every 2 weeks and we're all generally tidy people
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[Marcg868]

I couldn't live off that . I earn a ok wage in the NHS about £1800 a month after being bent over for tax. And missus slightly more at £2300 a month.
We spend about 800 on rent and the usual household bills and 300 a month on food for three of us. And have a decent amount of disposable income.

My mum who and partner who earn a good 2000 a month extra each somehow end up with less disposable income than us.

We don't eat crap, we have a beer most nights off, go out for a posh meal twice a month, and have a night out when we can be arsed. We don't waste money on fancy cloths, Asda jeans or primark stuff is fine.

And live in a quiet terraced street in Darwen.
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JACK, MISS YOU LOADS YOU LEGEND.

[smegballs]

Should everyone be able to live on their own though? If every adult should have the "right" to live in a house on their own, that an awful lot of housing that needs to be built.

Lower prices, lead to increased demand. Look at US cities that implemented rent controls in the postwar years, families that would have made do with one house, got two houses. Young adults that traditionally would have stayed in the family home, got their own place as it was now affordable, with rents were artificially low. Demand soared and waiting lists for housing were huge as everyone wanted some of that cheap-house action. At the same time, investment in new housing builds dried up, as the rent ceiling made for a low rate of return on investment, further exacerbating the shortage.

On the other side of the coin, landlords knew that no matter how good the housing was, they couldn't charge any more money. As expected, plenty of housing projects became untenable for the landlords, the cost of providing mandated services, became higher than the rent income. Plenty of landlords abandoned/neglected their properties.

One of the problems with the UK rent prices is housing benefit. Housing benefit represents a minimum rent, as backed up by the government. Landlords know that no matter how poor the tenant, they can still rely on the £70pw or whatever it is. The logical extension then is to use £70pw as the base rate for the shittiest single room going and work upwards.

[yaigi]

[Polarbear]

There is nothing to beat coming home to a house that you know will only have your wife and your dog in.

Wear what you want, eat what you want, do what you want. The only thing I get told off for is farting and that's only if I can't blame the dog.

Ahh, home ownership. Bliss (expensive bliss, but bliss anyway )
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[Wave2k]

Cost of living in the US, specially outside of the major cities is alot cheaper, therefore they do not need as high a min wage as us in the UK.

People in London get more than people in leeds because its ALOT more expensive to live in London.
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[stinkwheel]

[c_dug]

Skipped a lot of this thread so apologies if this isn't relevant any more but it is possible to live on less than minimum wage here without claiming any benefits.

When I was 18 I was working around 30 hours a week on about £5.25 an hour and lived in a room in a shared house in Greater London, I relied a lot on friends and family but then I didn't spend wisely. Pretty certain if I did it again I could live on that much money easily enough, big 3KG bag of pasta from tesco is only £3.50 and for shitty sauces can be bought for around 50p per jar. Shopping that way can easily get a weeks worth of food for under £15, myself and my girlfriend lived on £20 between us for a week in the past. It definitely isn't a fun way to live, but you have to take the good with the bad, four years later and I'm in a good job in a nice flat and definitely on the up.
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[Benno]

[J.M.]

[Benno]

[_Will_]

Would think it a fair bit cheaper to live in US, the UK min wage is far behind where it should be.

Yeah ok as a single bloke living in a 1 bedroom house share living off Asdapasta & smartprice mince you can get by, but to have a half decent standard of living for even a small family its not enough - if it were there wouldn't be need for income support or tax credits.

Like anywhere rents/mortgages will vary by area, the taxes we pay are far higher, in the us energy costs are cheaper comparatively, rents/mortgages are cheaper, fuel is much much cheaper, vat is pretty much twice the highest sales tax (and thrice the average), no road tax, no mot in a lot of places, no tv license, no insurance tax etc I could go on and on. ... ....
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[st3v3]

[Derivative]

[P.addy]

Cheapest place...somewhere decent-ish

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/(undisclosed-Address)-Cliffside-Park-NJ-07010/2115264730_zpid/

[Ariel Badger]

America, where everyone is free to sleep under a bridge.
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[smegballs]

What if we..... got rid of minimum wage.....

The idea of minimum wage is all well and good, enough to live on and all that. Yet in practice it depresses employment.

The problem is when you look at it from the employers point of view. Lets say the minimum wage is £40/day. That means that the employee has to at (unrealistic) minimum have a productivity of £40/day just for the employer to break even (just wages, let alone NI + any other obligations). Minimum wage in effect is saying that everyone has a minimum productivity, which of course isn't true some will work harder, some less so. By removing the ability of workers/employers to mutually set a agreed price, it makes the price of labour artificially high, driving down demand and thus employment.

Now lets consider laws like "over X employees, you need to invest in so many first aiders, PPE, break rooms, toilets etc". Taking on employees is requires big investment from the business, if the price of labour is artificially high then all of a sudden it makes more sense to bring in more mechanisation that it does create jobs. OTOH, if the price of labour is cheap enough, it pays to get labour to do the work instead. Machinery doesn't need sick pay or rush out when their kids go to hospital, therefore if the choice is there between expensive labour or machines, machines often win out.

Also the best companies will still continue to pay well, to attract the best people. Look at the Japanese auto factories in the USA, they pay well enough and treat their employees well enough that the employees have actually voted to keep unions out, rather than opting for labor unions.

What do you do when someone tries to make you pay over the odds for something? Generally you buy as little as you possible need to minimise the amount you get ripped off. By the same logic, if you have to pay over the odds for labour, you try to get away with the smallest workforce possible.