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| new001 |
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new001
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| J4mes |
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J4mes
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 Posted: 16:53 - 07 Jan 2013  Post subject: |
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1/ slow down and flash him out. Hopefully he won't hit you then, and you've done someone a favour.
2/ don't let yourself get in to the position where someone is tailgating you so badly that you can't make an emergency stop if requried. Either accelerate and put distance between you, or slow down to encourage them to put distance between you. If neither happens, and you're on a bike that can't out pace the person behind, slow right down and wave them past.
The only real way of spotting incidents before they happen is by gaining experience, and riding along going "what if what if what what if what if".
It's when you start to take every minor thing in to account that you build up an ability to read situations and try to account for almost every outcome before it happens  |
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| Andrew_ |
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Andrew_
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| Skudd |
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Skudd
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| Posted: 09:34 - 08 Jan 2013 Post subject: |
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| J4mes wrote: | 1/ slow down and flash him out. Hopefully he won't hit you then, and you've done someone a favour.
2/ don't let yourself get in to the position where someone is tailgating you so badly that you can't make an emergency stop if requried. Either accelerate and put distance between you, or slow down to encourage them to put distance between you. If neither happens, and you're on a bike that can't out pace the person behind, slow right down and wave them past.
The only real way of spotting incidents before they happen is by gaining experience, and riding along going "what if what if what what if what if".
It's when you start to take every minor thing in to account that you build up an ability to read situations and try to account for almost every outcome before it happens |
Have you passed a test? Some of the worst advice I've seen.
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Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm". |
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J4mes
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| UrbanRacer |
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UrbanRacer
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| Slacker24seve... |
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Slacker24seve...
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| J.M. |
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J.M.
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| Skudd |
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Skudd
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| J4mes |
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J4mes
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| Posted: 11:12 - 08 Jan 2013 Post subject: |
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| J.M. wrote: |
I prefer to be tailgated near junctions. Then the car at the junction doesn't need to see me for me to be safe, they only need to see the car. |
Having been involved in two accidents as a young driver, both where people pulled out of side roads in to the main road upon which I was driving, I don't feel (in my experience) that it provides much more protection.
| Skudd wrote: |
ADI, good enough? |
Very good - yet still you offer up no advice.
My advice is based on my 40K+ miles a year at all times of day and night, in all weathers, uk and abroad on bikes, vans, cars with trailers, HGV's and heavy plant. So I can only go on my experience, and what has (since the two aforementioned accidents) kept me safe. |
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| Skudd |
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Skudd
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| Posted: 11:24 - 08 Jan 2013 Post subject: |
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| J4mes wrote: |
| Skudd wrote: |
ADI, good enough? |
Very good - yet still you offer up no advice.
My advice is based on my 40K+ miles a year at all times of day and night, in all weathers, uk and abroad on bikes, vans, cars with trailers, HGV's and heavy plant. So I can only go on my experience, and what has (since the two aforementioned accidents) kept me safe. |
Some of the worse drivers I have seen have been high mileage drivers and the "proffesional driver". Bad habbits, things that they have got away with become the norm, bullies on the road, the list goes on and on. Last time most have read the basics in the highway code or any driving manual is when they too a test and then it was just enough to scrape through. That is why I advocate a driving test for all every 5 years.
Just a simple read of the Highway code or Road craft would give the OP some sound proper advice.
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Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm". |
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J4mes
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| Skudd |
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Skudd
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 11:47 - 08 Jan 2013 Post subject: Re: SMIDSY question ? |
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| new001 wrote: | A car is waiting at a junction to your left to turn left.You approach you see his wheels ain't moving and he has his indicator on also you notice he looked in your direction. [b]So you mountain you speed to the speed limit[b] also there is heavy traffic on both sides.When your about 10 meters away he suddenly decides to move and pullout in front of you
........ what do you do ? |
You CRASH
(in all probability!)
Mistake bolded.
Underlined... "You See" the 'threat'... but you take no action... becouse you see him look in your direction.....?!?!?!?!
Drivers can move their heads around and NOT see a damn thing! Remember the RULE
They LOOK for "Car" or "No-Car"..... motorbike is "No-Car" therfore you are a SPACE that the driver can drive into! NEVER FORGET this. NEVER presume, EVEN if they look you in the eye!
Shit! They can wind down the window and yell your name in cheery greeting....... I'd STILL have my dounts they wouldn't pull out on me!
Failure then is that you relied on them doing what they ought to.... looking, looking for bikes, and NOT doing what they shouldn't... pull out on you.
You spotted him..... YOU know he's there, YOU know what he can do to you, YOU know whether there is room to go around him, swerve, or stop..... and if you ENT got it... you make it.
SLOW DOWN - not 'maintain road speed to the speed limit'.... speed limits mean fuck all anyway... and if the weather's bad, the surface poor you DONT even do the bludy limit, you give yourself MARGIN for FUCK-UP!
| new001 wrote: | Your traveling down straight section of a country lane at around 60mph you approach a junction on you left side from a distance as you get closer you see a car approaching that junction at speed to turn right you anticipate him not stopping but you cant reduce speed quickly because of a tail gator.A car behind is following you closely.
........ what do you do ? |
Head for the hedge... its softer than being in the middle of imploding automobiles!
Fail is the tail-gaitor. WHY haven't you done anything about it sooner? WHY if you have a dick-trying to climb up your anus, are you still doing NSL?
Long before compound erros creates thic collamity, you ought to have dealt with the proctologist.
If they are too close... you slow down, and you continue slowing down until they either leave room or they over-take. That's the principle. In that situation, you are BEHIND the proctologist when chap comes flying out the side turn; you have all the room you want to slow down and stop, and a front-row view of the spectacle when they collide.... you aren't the filling in a 4x4 sandwhich!
Back to that Tail-Gaitor, you DO NOT
a/ tap the brake to make the brake light come on
b/ tap the brake and 'dip' the bike as though sudden braking
c/ make obscene gestures at him
d/ anything ELSE likely to antagonise him.
You do NOT 'engage' with him. Any sort of 'retaliation' is like smart mouthing the bully at school; wont stop them bullying you, is likely to end with more bullying, possibly a thumping. DONT DO IT.
cool, calm walk away.
What you DO, do... Reduce speed incrementally; increasing ahead distance, so you have more space to react to anything they do do. You also VERY gradually, adjust lane possition to dominate your road-space, and if they try barging past you, giving yourself extra room between you and kurb to move into. You can drop perhaps 5mph every 200meters or so, if needs be, that gives you a clear MILE before you are down to a halt... it makes a lot of space and a lot of time to deal with the dick.
IN that time, you scan and look for a SAFE place to pull over.... if he is not getting the message and backing off, or has, but come back soon as you have picked up road-speed again...
YOU LOOK AHEAD
Do NOT let the idiot distratct you, do NOT focus your attension on what he is doing to try and get past.
He is a hazard, but there are just as many, and potentially as or more dangerouse anywhere else!
Use your mile of 'wind-down' to find a SAFE place to pull in, if needs be, and when you find one, if he is STILL dogging your arse.... USE IT.
Remember, he's an idiot, so maintain your right of centre lane possition as long as possible, but indicate early, and clearly, and slow down in good time.... 'hamming' the lne possitioning, maintaining your road room as long as possible and turning more acutely to manouver into your pull-in space.
STOP.
Let him pass; catch breath... and dont be tempted to pull straight out and CERTAINLY dont pull straight out and think to "Give him a taste of his own medicine"!
Give him a good 30 seconds to bugger off and find another rectum to inspect. Pull straight out, he may decide to 'Toy' with you, and slow down and try and make you pass HIM so he can do it all over again..... remember DO NOT ENGAGE..... let him FUCK the Hell OFF! Then proceed at your leisure.
If he hits you with his vehicle, remember, its merely a 'traffic collission'... you as biker are BOUND to come off teh worse regardless, and plod will NOT do bog-all; as far as tey are concerned its a traffic collission, you swap insurance and thats the end of it.
If you are STOPPED, then for the proctologist to HIT you.... its common assault; a criminal offence not a civil one; plod CAN come arrest and do something! AND its a damn site harder to hurt you if you aren;t trying to balence a precariouse auto-stable vehicle between your legs!
So... both instances... the "Fail" cam LONG before the situation you describe..... by the time you have GOT to that situation, its too late. You ought to have done more, and sooner to avoid the SMIDSY... and there is in both situations stuff you COULD have done.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| pa_broon74 |
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pa_broon74
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| Posted: 11:53 - 08 Jan 2013 Post subject: Re: SMIDSY question ? |
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| new001 wrote: | A car is waiting at a junction to your left to turn left. You approach you see his wheels ain't moving and he has his indicator on also you notice he looked in your direction.So you mountain you speed to the speed limit also there is heavy traffic on both sides.When your about 10 meters away he suddenly decides to move and pullout in front of you what do you do ? |
Let some speed drain off, not much but enough to make you comfortable if you need to stop, also, cover your brakes just in case. Always have an escape route in mind, up a lowered kerb for example or between traffic or into any available clear space. (This is easier in a car but works the same for motorcycles, never for example sit directly behind another vehicle in stationary traffic, always leave enough space so you can get out of the way if another vehicle fails to stop in time.)
| new001 wrote: | Your traveling down straight section of a country lane at around 60mph you approach a junction on you left side from a distance as you get closer you see a car approaching that junction at speed to turn right you anticipate him not stopping but you cant reduce speed quickly because of a tail gator.A car behind is following you closely.What do you do ? |
Shit yourself?
Not sure if the picture you paint is unavoidable (as you've painted it.) Otherwise, same advice, cover the brakes, let some speed drain off and look for escape routes. Sometimes accidents are unavoidable, so its more about limiting injury and/or damage than anything else. Instinct will take over so no amount of forum advice will help, you'll either throw it down or just fixate and make contact.
Other than that, its all about escape routes...
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 12:02 - 08 Jan 2013  Post subject: |
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| J4mes wrote: | 1/ slow down and flash him out. Hopefully he won't hit you then, and you've done someone a favour. |
Good principle... but NEVER 'Flash'... you should only use headlamp as a signal, as you would the horn 'To alert other road-users to your presence'... also you may have conceded priority, BUT its still his duty to LOOK..... car behind may decide HE's not wating and try over taking you JUST as car pulls out at your 'flash'...
Flash is also an ambigiouse signal, and other drivers may imply a completely different meaning from it.
Simply draw up to a halt, and LET them do the rest.
| J4mes wrote: | 2/ don't let yourself get in to the position where someone is tailgating you so badly that you can't make an emergency stop if requried. Either accelerate and put distance between you, or slow down to encourage them to put distance between you. If neither happens, and you're on a bike that can't out pace the person behind, slow right down and wave them past.. |
Absoltely, but bolded? NO! Just No. Accelerate away, and you are conceding 'control' to the bullying driver, rewarding them for thier intimidating tactics.
You are ALSO riding beyoind what you would 'otherwise' deem safe. If it wasn't 'safe' to go that fast without a proctologist trying to inspoect your tail-tidy it SURE as FUCK ent 'safer' to go that fast with one in attendance!
Twenty years ago.... on a bike..... yeah... I would have done that, and said that.... in fact I did....... but with so many modern cars capable of very respectable speeds, we cant rely on having that 'extra' like maybe we once did.... and if we do have it, you have to be going loonie speeds to find it.
Sixteen years ago, dealing with a proctologist on a luckily very empty newly built M40, I discovered that even at 160mph, you do not open a very long gap very quickly on some-one in a big exec saloon who once past the ton and into licence loosing territory is happy to max out thier auto-bahn basher!
Accelerating away, is just turning up the volume on the risks you are dicing with, and wont help any, if they persist.
| J4mes wrote: | The only real way of spotting incidents before they happen is by gaining experience, and riding along going "what if what if what what if what if".
It's when you start to take every minor thing in to account that you build up an ability to read situations and try to account for almost every outcome before it happens |
Spotting them isn't SO hard... its knowing what to do about them, and doing it early enough that's the hard part.
Trouble with relying on ;experience' is that as first example; Ne1's 'instinct' haviong spotted potential SMIDSY was to hold road-speed.... and 9 times out of ten, the SMIDSY doesn't pull out, so ;experience' teaches you that thats what you SHOULD do.... it doesn't tell you or encourage you to do anything more or sooner, so its a shock when you get that one in 10 that DOES pull out, and its too late to do bog all, and we are relying on cat like reflexes or heading for the hedge-rows!
Experience is good.... but 'tips' and 'advice' about other strategies that COULD be employed, BACKED by experience is better.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 14:41 - 08 Jan 2013 Post subject: Re: SMIDSY question ? |
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| new001 wrote: | you notice he looked in your direction. |
We've discussed this several times.
Unless you're actively involved in a mutual negotiation, you're only kidding yourself by thinking that a look in your direction has any significance beyond them seeing a hole in the traffic that's not filled with a car.
If you think that you've got eye contact then your instinctive social primate reaction when they do something unbelievable will be to express surprise with your face - that they can't see and haven't seen. That's half a second of braking time you're not getting back.
Ignore the driver, watch their front wheels, always.
The answers to your questions are:
Assume that everyone will do something idiotic, and ride on that assumption until it you either need to commit to trusting them, or you just stop and go to the pub instead.
But really, tailgating? Slow down or pull over, you're the one who will pay for their idiocy.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Andy_Pagin |
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Andy_Pagin
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| Sable |
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Sable
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Seigi
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 16:12 - 08 Jan 2013 Post subject: Re: SMIDSY question ? |
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| Sable wrote: | | Teflon-Mike wrote: |
Do NOT let the idiot distract you, do NOT focus your attention on what he is doing to try and get past.
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Was nearly my first accident. Way back when, on a rotten CG with L's, first week of riding. Let a tail gater get my attention with them super bright neon lights, then panicked when I noticed brake light red ahead, mounted curb, over a grass stretch, came at a skilful (/read lucky) stop on the pavement.
Early lesson. I now do more or less what the rest of Mike's post said. Slowly skim off speed until he passes or I pull in and let him past. |
Newbie TIP: REMOVE the MIRRORS from your bike!
It's a bit 'luddite' but for an early-learner? Or a car driver migrating to cars, it is rather very useful!
You have to ACTUALLY turn your head to see behind you... you cang get away with a quick (and partial) mirror check.
A lot of car-drivers are mirror dependent; common amongst DAS trained riders, they never kick the habbit and do propper observations, as they have engrained the mirror dependancy driving a car over however many years.
(Conversely, I narrowly avoided a 'bump' in the car today, from doing a 'life-saver'!!)
Mirrors are NOT a substitute for proper 'rear-obervations' on a bike, as they may be in a car. AND you dont legally NEED to have mirrrors on a motorbike.
I have to admit that riding without them I DO find disconcerting, these days, BUT, converse is that I DO look over my shoulder a LOT more..... and I look around a LOT!
Works to get into the habit of how MUCH you should be looking around and behind you and not relying on shaky little bits of glass giving a partial and often distorted view.
Also means that you don't get distracted by bright lights glaring in them..... and cant fixate on such distractions....
One of the few instances for a Newbie when Ignorance IS bliss!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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Posted: 16:54 - 08 Jan 2013  Post subject: |
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For some reason people seem to over think this. The best advice in 99.9% of hazardous situations is to slow down.
If you slow you have more reaction time, more chance to be seen and more options. If the worst happens and you do crash then your impact will be less forceful.
Tailgaters sometimes make this tricky, but slow gradually make sure your brake light is on (not engine braking).
____________________
current: ducati monster 750
past: hyosung gt250r, bajaj pulsar 180, hyosung gt 125 comet
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Andy_Pagin
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 347 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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