A car for the Nurburgring

[jjdugen]

Putting this out to the BCF collective.
Brother and I used to do long continental tours at least once a year. Wound up with him and his Blackbird trying to move the French Alps, the Alps won. Smashed him up pretty comprehensively so he had no option but to retire from biking. Woman in his life finally had one phsycotic episode too many so he now finds himself free of that particular money pit. In other words, he has rejoined the human race.
He has listened to me banging on about the Nurburgring for the last six years and suddenly announced that he is up for it.... but not on a bike.
So, good brother that I am, I have agreed that this year we will do it with him. Ecomonics demand that we do it in a car, (I would dearly love to take my 'Blade firefighter).
So, budget of circa £2000 for a motor that:-
Above all handles and roadholds.
Prefere a good strong motor.

Not bothered about fuel consumption or insurance, we are both too old to cause the underwriters any concern and its not going to be a keeper, but sold on afterwards (if theres anything left of it).
Started to do a look through the 'Bay. Looked at a 2.5 MG, old tech pushed to its limits, and, a Mazda RX wankel whotsit...... That is some car, but riddled with probable problems. In the watch list is an Alfa Spyder 3 litre... Italian????? Problems!!!
I quite fancy a 2 litre Clio thats up at the moment, well within budget with enough left for some decent tyres etc.
Anyone have any recomendations for a compact, well sorted sports or hot hatch that will make the 'ring fun without unduly trying to kill us?

Cheers
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The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?

[Rogue_Shadow]

going to get slated and stereotyped ...
But a Saxo VTS would give you alot of fun around The Ring

# Cheap
# Easy to work on
# Spend the cash saved on track kit, which is opening available for the VTS

The Clio is another good contender

I'll leave now

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4516853291_42623ddfb1_o.jpg

https://www.racecarsdirect.com/photos/photo4GLxa10iYeTHup6dv.jpg

[daverave999]

Mazda MX-5! I reckon you could pick up a reasonable 1.8iS Mk2 (or Mk2.5 1.8i Sport has better seats) for your £2k. Not hugely powerful but great fun to drive. It's worth getting the 3d alignment done if you do. Not a huge amount of luggage space but a rack or boot bag would help there. Worth a test drive at least?

[krarkol]

I thought mx-5 too when I read this!

Cheap little japanese sports car so reliable and heaps of fun! Can even cheekily put the roof down when it's hot for some extra fast (for little car standards ) wind in your hair fun
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Bandit 600 - deaded

[MarJay]

Mk2 MR2, preferably a turbo.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[G]

Definitely consider an MX5.

If you want a bit more space, how about something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160952812370
(Get them to MOT it first.)

[P.]

[weasley]

My first thought was an MR2 but the MX-5 is a great shout.

The little French warm hatches will be great in the corners but there are a few long 'straights', with some uphill pulls, and you will find yourself cursing the lack of power. Last time I went around was in an E92 M3 and still thought "MOAR POWAAAAAH!!!"

You might find an older BMW 325i or something for your money.
Nissan 200SX?
Golf GTi?
Honda Civic/CRX?

If you are driving it there and back you might want at least a modicum of comfort, economy and luggage space; it's a fairly long old haul (I have ridden there and back on my bike, although never take a bike on the Ring).
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Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[arry]

Throw an extra grand at the budget and look for a 96 Spec Integra Type R DC2.

If you're selling afterwards then as long as you don't spank it up it's going to hold its value just fine and be easy enough to punt on.

Engine wise they're fairly bullet proof as long as it's been looked after - there's a few smokey ones out there that burn some oil, so you'd have to make sure you get a decent extended test run - and while you're at it, make sure the clutch / box is strong. Clutch is a bit of a weak point as they snap springs on occasion but one with a fairly new OEM Honda clutch should be fine and easy to find.

Once you've got one, you've got a near 200bhp lightweight car which is excellent to drive fast - complete with bucket seats and a decent steering wheel as standard. Tyres are 195/55/15 so dirt cheap for super sticky rubber. The only area of weakness as standard are the brakes; they're a little small and get a bit of fade on track. You'd probably have to address that if you were going to really push.

In terms of getting to the 'ring - it'll average 35+mpg no bother; or at least mine did all the way to Le Mans and back.

I reckon with a bit of hunting to find a decent one, £3k should do you - £3.5k tops - and it'll return your investment once you're finished with it.

[Nexus Icon]

Clio 172 Cup.

Not the standard 172, the Cup has better suspension, thinner glass and has shed around 100kg all in.

0-60 in 6.5s and excess of 140mph plus it will get you 35-40mpg there and back if you drive in a legal fashion.

Might be that a low mileage one is just over your budget but high milers are fine, just make sure it's had the belt change at 60k.

They like to be thrashed, everything goes blurry over 5000rpm, and they're not expensive to maintain.

Only available in two colours, metallic blue and iceberg silver (also a blue) so avoid anything in any other colour offered as a cup.

Despite better performance they seem to be about the same price as the standard 172, largely because the latter has climate control, leather, ABS and such.
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Greetings from Shitsville!

[Rogerborg]

Lancia Beta HPE VX. Dodgy MOT. Trailer it there. Rag it until it dies. Set fire to it and post pictures on the Lancia owners' forums.

Actually, it's mostly about posting the pictures.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[karoshi]

£2k budget is a bit low for a full on track car, I'd look at:

- mx5

- Nissan 200sx, may get an early s14 turbo in budget

- BMW E28 model 535, 80s sharknose model

- BMW 635csi: early 80s manual, may be rusty in budget but big lazy engine & an LSD

- BMW E30 325i, 2door 80s model

- Hillman Imp, £2k might be enough for a cheap one with the bits to ugrade the engine & suspension to rally spec, would be a hoot on the corners

- Merc 190e Cosworth, blend in with the locals, pretend to be the bad guys in Taxi.. there's actually a couple of the 2.3L model on ebay for less than £2k, that's just weird..

- Rover SD1, 3.5L v8 manual spend a little on tuning and a large bore exhaust = fuck blending with the locals.. hand paint a union jack on the bonnet

- Opel Manta, not sure you'll get one under budget and you'll need to spend a few hundred on suspension & brakes but they're great cars (ok i'm biased) and if you're starting out it'll do for a couple years in standard trim before you want more power, and engine conversion options are many and reasonably simple.

- Locost 7 / Westfield 7.. may not get one under budget though?

- Fiesta xr2, mk2(?) from the late 80s, wrong wheel drive but handle well and the xr2 engine is good one

- Volvo 850 t5r, can be tuned up for trackdays, lots of space for gear?

- mk1 Mazda rx7, rotary engined fun might be in budget (for the first 6months at least)

- Reliant Scimitar, 3.0L ford v6, made out of fibreglass so very light

- Mitsubishi Lancer GSR / Evo1, 2 or 3

- '98- '01 Subaru Impreza WRX/turbo



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Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it. - Elwood P. Dowd

[jjdugen]

Thanks folks, but keep them coming please.
Looking at going for the June or August tourist weekend so plenty of time to look around
Brother has made the point that spending more gets better technology, especially at this time of the year, but I've seen too many tasty cars reduced to scrap on the ring and dont fancy tking that financial hit. If the worst happens its not just the car, its the repair costs and towing fees that the ring charge, plus, of course, having to get back to the ferry. Its been a long time since I had anything four wheeled with a bit of go in it so I'll take some working up to it, bro' has never seen the ring. Trouble is, I'm fairly confident with motorcyle lines, but car lines will need unlearning the last six years and starting all over again.
Still, its something to look forward to and gives us plenty to discuss over a few pints.
Cheers
____________________
The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?

[Wave2k]

Clio Sport 172

Cheap as chips and a good track car once its all stripped.

Ive done Nurburg in an MX5 with a Brendan (race instructor and former lap record holder on bike) and it was a little boring, the clio would have just the right amount of power.
Shame its FWD but its not the kinda track when id wanna mess around with RWD if you arnt used to it.

I did the ring myself in a Audi TT , VW passat 1.9TDI, Honda SP1 and an Aprilia RSVR1000.

Bike was most fun
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2009 Corvette C6 z51
RS125->CBR400->RXS100->GSXR750K2->Ducati749S->CBR600RR5->TL1000R->DRz400->RSVR1000->Honda VTR SP1->CBR400->GSXR1000K6->Honda H100->CBR600RR3->Ducati1299

[dansrockin]

206 gti180, very quick little hatch. Much better than the standard gti, and can be got at pretty good prices now. I had a black 54 plate a few years ago and it was a cracking car, you can throw them round corners and they just stick to the road.

[nant]

Where are you based? My sister has an mx5 in leeds, that is currently sorn, nowt wrong with it apart from a few dented panels and needs a new battery. Its the cooool one with pop up lights in racing green . I borrowed it for goodwood last year. fun little go kart.

[sidewinder]

Focus st 170 can be got now for £2000
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"Nitrous is like a cheap hooker, you want to hit it but are scared of the consequences

[P.]

[haroman666]

If it were me with that budget/plan, I would buy a complete shitter of a Golf/Polo/Lupo GTI. And then bang on as many upgrades as I could with the rest of the budget.

But that's cause i'm a VAG fanboy.

MX-5 would be a sensible choice, cause there's sideways action prospect.

Just go for anything old and beat up that you can slap some semi-decent tyres on.
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The mistresses: 2000 Honda CBR600f, 2000 Honda VTR1000

[c_dug]

Can find Mitsubishi GTO's in that price range, I don't actually drive so my opinions are pish, but they were pretty good cars on Gran Turismo
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[lukamon]

https://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af72/napalm811/MX5Noplate.jpg

+

https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/tyres/r888.jpg

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[stevo as b4]

Very interesting as to what some people's thoughts are for an affordable reasonable cost to run car to buy, take to the ring, and sell on again afterwards. I lol'd at the Impreza/ Evolution suggestions and some of the other obscure stuff.

I honestly think that a modern small/medium size French hot hatch has it all for this kind of car if your not going to want to keep it, and with a good balance of out of the box ability and sensible running costs. I don't even like French car's, but hell they just seem the best solution for this type of use.

You really don't want an old project or something big soggy and heavy if it's RWD. Old Beemer's, 200SX's and Rover SD1's would be like driving a very fast sloppy pudding and while they could be moderate fun, I think a loose old baggy RWD'er would leave you wishing you'd gone for the sensible Clio 172/182, 206Gti, 306Gti etc.

I wouldn't bother modding a car for such a trip either. You might want to go for some good new sticky tyres, and a full brake checkover and refresh with some track compound pads and decent fluid, but other than that i'd just give whatever you buy a really good service and once over. Id consider taking the stuff with you to do an oil and filter change and just some basic tools and a good spare wheel and a decent jack for wheel changing etc

All this talk of going to the Nurburgring kind of makes me want to take my Rover 220 coupe there, but I couldn't really afford the fuel costs let alone a new set of track day tyres and a full set of quality trackday brake pads etc.

[jjdugen]

OK, a bit more refinement to the list. We have agreed on 3K for the car, about £500 for a couple of spare wheels with good tyres. It will have new pads all round and a full service.
The more we look, the more the ST Fords look like a prospect.... Especially the Modeo with the V6 yank engine up front, (If we can find one).
One that I do remember from the early 2000's is the Honda Civic type R, the one with indie rear suspension and I'm told, superior to the latest Starship Enterprise model.
Brother has discounted all Vauxhalls as being too floppy and soft, did a bit of sneering at French build quaity, but did agree that the Clio's do seem to get good reports. Discounted an MX5 as being a little too underpowered, as well as being a bit lively in the rear end department if the going gets slippy. We will continue the discussion over yet more beers tommorow.
There are some good (?) bargains to be had right now, may just be the time of the year but times are hard....

Quick addition. There are any number of Suburu Imprezzas out there at the £2K mark.... What is known about them?
____________________
The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?

[J4mes]

[Nexus Icon]