Recent fatal bike crash case that may be of interest

[T.C]

People often ask me how the Courts determine what is an appropriate punishment or period of disqualification as a result of being convicted for example after a crash, especially in a fatal

Well such a case has just been heard at the RCJ on appeal, which I thought you might find interesting.

R v MICHAEL CHRISTOPHER BAGSHAWE (2013)

It was not inappropriate for a judge to sentence an offender to three years' disqualification from driving for causing death by careless driving where the offence did not fall within the lowest category of the relevant sentencing guidelines.

The appellant (B) appealed against a three-year disqualification from driving following his plea of guilty to causing death by careless driving.

B had been driving his car on a carriageway when he pulled out across a motorcyclist (V). V was thrown from his bike and died at the scene. B was 85 at the time of the accident. Before sentencing, the judge mentioned that he had sought to advise his own parents about driving when they were elderly. When sentencing he stated that it was because of B's inadvertence that he had not seen V.

He concluded that the offence fell within the middle category, category 2, of the relevant sentencing guidelines, and that the minimum disqualification period of one year was not sufficient in circumstances where a man had died.

He sentenced B to a 12-month community order comprising a 150-hour unpaid work requirement and disqualified him from driving for three years.

B submitted that the judge (1) unfairly took into account his age when sentencing; (2) erred in saying that the minimum one-year disqualification period was insufficient as Parliament had determined that the minimum period was sufficient in cases involving death by careless driving; (3) was unfair to impose a sentence that was three times the minimum period.

HELD: (1) In mentioning the advice he himself had given, the judge was simply making a helpful and friendly observation. He did not take B's age into account when sentencing. (2) It was important to have regard to the judge's wording as he had said the minimum period was not sufficient "in a case such as this". He had found that the offence fell in the middle category of the sentencing guidelines because of B's culpability, and in those circumstances the judge was entitled to reach the conclusion that he had. (3) The sentencing guidelines made it clear that a one-year disqualification was the minimum that could be imposed, not that it was the normal or standard period that would be imposed.

Disqualification from driving had a dual role: it was a penalty as well as a preventative measure. The judge was fully entitled to decide that a three-year disqualification was appropriate.

Appeal dismissed
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It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[MarJay]

Three year disqualification is still a joke for causing someone's death. And to have such a lack of respect as to appeal that at 85 years old!

I'm lost for words...
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Joncrete Cungle]

Yet the old woman who SMIDSYed a teenage lad off his bike a short distance from my house, pushing him along under her car 'til she stopped on top of him and crushed him to death with her lethal weapon was not prosecuted. As she decided to hand in her driving licence.

[Bubbs]

Seems like the perfect muder.... right all I have to do is run my boss over and hand in my license for a couple of year... maybe it would be worth it.
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Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

[TUG]

Bikers die and no body waves a finger, like that poor bloke who was killed by that footballer who fell asleep at the wheel, he only got community service for fucks sake.
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Haz ER-5, innit!

[Wonko The Sane]

[P.addy]

Couldn't care if he is 25 or 85, colliding with another vehicle killing them warrants more than a ban/disqualification.

At bare minimum I'd want 10 years if someone killed another person.

I'm waiting on the results of what killed my brother, some funky things have started popping up about non tested kit and faulty equipment...so negligence. Exactly what happened here..

Might be me in a foul mood, but fuck him.

[T.C]

[TheSmiler]

[P.addy]

[chris-red]

Do people on here actually think an 85 year old should go to prison for a mistake?

I've been smidsy'd 3 times, if things had gone slightly differently I'm pretty sure I COULD have died at 2. If I had I wouldn't have wanted anyone to go to prison for it.

It serves no purpose, any of us could accidentally kill someone on the roads with a minor lapse of judgement.

Personally, I think the guy should have been banned from driving for life. Carrying around the fact that you killed a kid is punishment enough.
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[Rogerborg]

[daemonoid]

[beast rider]

I feel sickened when I read things like this.

A few years ago a friend of mine was driving her car and went for an overtake on a duel carriage way when one of her tires blew, she lost control of her car, collided with the car she was overtaking and killed the two occupants of the vehicle.

She was sentenced to a 3 year driving ban and two years in prison. Her husband had to give up work and claim benefits to look after their children while she was serving her time.

How comes she was given a harsher sentence for a complete accident that she had no control over and this old codger (who in my opinion should have given up his licence along time before) get let off easy.

Age shouldn't be a factor.

[daemonoid]

[BigDan1190]

Prison won't be for revenge, it will also act as a deterrent for others.

When I get to that age, I will be re-assessing my ability to drive because I would never want to be in a position where I ended someones life.

However;

Not many people think like that, and even if they do, will adopt a "it will never happen to me" attitude, and continue to drive. But, if they had heard about several cases where elderly drivers had caused an accident and then subsequently spent the rest of their lives in prison, they would be far less likely to take the risk.

When my mum reaches 70, I'll be taking her driving license myself! My dad and stepdad are excellent drivers though, but I'd be wanting them to retake the tests at the least.

I firmly believe in mandatory retests at 65, 70, 75 e.t.c.

[scorps]

a heart breaking incident happened up here, not bike related but a woman accidentally hit and killed a teenager who ran out in front of the bus she just got off. The girl hadnt even looked, the bus was in a bus layby so not on the road at the time. The woman driver was taken to court and cleared of any crime and it was judged fairly I think as a tragic accident that could have been avoided if the girl had stopped and looked before running out.

The woman driver suffered depression terribly after the accident with all the accompanying guilt even though she was told she wasnt at fault. In her mind as a mother herself she had snuffed out the life of a child and couldnt get over it. The parents of the girl however demanded their piece of flesh and decided that their daughters life was worth £350,000 so thats what they decided to sue this woman for in a civil action.

The woman got served her court papers and had a breakdown, she ended up stoodat the side of a busy duel carriageay and ran out into onccoming traffic. The driver who hit her was obviously traumatised as were the drivers of the several other cars that hit her while she got tossed around the road.

Not one of them blamed the woman for causing them distress and one was quoted as saying I hope that the family who tried to sue can live with the knowlege that in order to financially gain from their daughters death, they destroyed another family of an innocent woman who they hounded to her death.

Very very sad but an accident with two tragic outcomes.
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[scorps]

Dan just my twopence worth, more people are killed by men in their late teens and early 20s. in order to balance this out, young women texting too.
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Do not presume that I am male.

[BigDan1190]

Yeah - what do you plan to do to reduce those deaths?

I have no idea what can be done to stop young drivers causing accidents.

I do know that once you get to a certain age you lose reaction times and how long it takes to think and plan e.t.c. Something can be done about that.

[scorps]

I think regular testing on a smaller scale for everyone, say every three years or something maybe five. Actually enforce fines and points for using mobiles, restrict younger drivers like bikers for a start.
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[neatbik]

[scorps]

the thinking time differs from person to person, a younger person driving while doped up or drunk has a shorter reaction time too.
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Do not presume that I am male.

[thx1138]

SMIDSY's kill bikers, and they get off virtually scot free.

Bikers break speed limits, they face prison.

[BigDan1190]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]