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How did live TV work pre digital

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chris-red
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: How did live TV work pre digital Reply with quote
I understand the basics of how TV is broadcast, what I don't understand is how in the olden days before digital how the image went from the camera to the transmitter. I have tried googling it but I couldn't find anything that explains it.

I assumed all the cameras back there were film based, is that not correct?
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andy_uk
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PostPosted: 18:51 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Analogue cameras Smile

Digital is pretty new really.

Are you meaning when they used these type of cameras ?
https://www.golden-agetv.co.uk/equipment.php?ProducerID=1
or
https://www.nationalmediamuseum.org.uk/Collection/Television/StudioEquipment/CollectionItem.aspx?id=1992-5021
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uberkron
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cable from camera to broadcast van, broadcast van transmits to whoever is in control room at "station". From here, feed is made live to the public. I only have one contact in terrestrial television and this was his quick run down.

Im in nz, this tech is still current for another 5 months. I stopped watching television 2 years ago, so come the digital switch over my tv will be a dedicated monitor. Some visitors like to watch it curently.
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Shaft
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Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Re: How did live TV work pre digital Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
I understand the basics of how TV is broadcast, what I don't understand is how in the olden days before digital how the image went from the camera to the transmitter. I have tried googling it but I couldn't find anything that explains it.

I assumed all the cameras back there were film based, is that not correct?


Love how you describe analogue as the olden days, they only started the digital switchover properly in 2007 Laughing

It was sent using radio frequencies in the VHF and UHF bands, same as it is now.

They did use film in devices called tele recorders, pre video (and after for a while, video tape was very expensive) which consisted of a standard TV camera, with a receiver and screen inside, which then played the live signal and was filmed from the screen, in the same way as using a video camera to tape from your TV.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Re: How did live TV work pre digital Reply with quote
I mean how does the camera output the signal.

what is the film/sensor etc.
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Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Re: How did live TV work pre digital Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
I mean how does the camera output the signal.

what is the film/sensor etc.


The really early ones didn't have film or record at all. They converted directly from light to waveform. The waveform was sent down a wire to the transmitter and transmitted directly.

Unfortunately I've no idea what kind of sensors they used...
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_Will_
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
CRT's were the 'sensors' converting light into electrical signals and used up to the 90's, CCD & CMOS then slowly started taking over although the technology has been around since the 60's.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Re: How did live TV work pre digital Reply with quote
Shaft wrote:

Love how you describe analogue as the olden days, they only started the digital switchover properly in 2007 Laughing


Most TV stations have had all SDI (digital) video internally since about 2000, and had (and still have) many DA converters to convert the SDI to analogue video.

Analogue video is still used for reference black for SD television broadcasting. Tapes have been digital since the early 90's IIRC.

It was only the transmission itself which was analogue since around that time.

Prior to that it was just an analogue waveform sent over a coax cable.

The colour is encoded into the 'flat parts' of the analogue black and white waveform. There are good explanations on Wikipedia and stuff, but I can't be arsed to dredge up my analogue broadcasting knowledge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/57/PAL_picture.png/400px-PAL_picture.png
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
They used a device a bit like a CRT in reverse called a vidicon tube. The signal was amplified and processed, mixed to produce the desired broadcast output then fed either directly to the transmitter or via satellite if it was an outside broadcast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_camera_tube
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
They did it without pixelating every time the wind blows.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 31 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ariel Badger wrote:
They did it without pixelating every time the wind blows.


Yeah but instead of pixels you had scan lines. Interference resulted in loss or corruption of individual scan line(s), resulting in random lines of B&W noise or at worst a picture that looked like 90% snow, with a faint image discernable in amongst all the analogue noise.

I had to laugh when I was watching "Went the Day Well?" at a mates house, broadcast on Sky last year. They weren't using a digital source, it was just a broadcast of an old Beta tape. You could see the occasional noisy line here and there, instead of corrupted macroblocks. So much for the benefits of a high quality digital picture.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:38 - 31 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ariel Badger wrote:
They did it without pixelating every time the wind blows.


Indeed.

But if Marconi hadn't burned down Logie bairds laboratory there hadn't been a terrible accidental fire just before the date the UK government decided on their standard TV format of choice. We'd have been watching colour TV on electromechanical TV sets before WW2.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 00:52 - 31 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Ariel Badger wrote:
They did it without pixelating every time the wind blows.


Indeed.

But if Marconi hadn't burned down Logie bairds laboratory there hadn't been a terrible accidental fire just before the date the UK government decided on their standard TV format of choice. We'd have been watching colour TV on electromechanical TV sets before WW2.


Stinkwheel, you haz joined the conspiracy theorists Wink Razz
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chris-red
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 31 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
They used a device a bit like a CRT in reverse called a vidicon tube. The signal was amplified and processed, mixed to produce the desired broadcast output then fed either directly to the transmitter or via satellite if it was an outside broadcast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_camera_tube


This is what I was after,

I tried reading it and went a bit crosseyed, so I'll stick to my initial explanation of Witchcraft. Thumbs Up
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Walloper
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 31 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
Islander wrote:
They used a device a bit like a CRT in reverse called a vidicon tube. The signal was amplified and processed, mixed to produce the desired broadcast output then fed either directly to the transmitter or via satellite if it was an outside broadcast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_camera_tube


This is what I was after,

I tried reading it and went a bit crosseyed, so I'll stick to my initial explanation of Witchcraft. Thumbs Up


Witchcraft is MUCH easier to explain and understand IMHO.

They used a clever combination of divining rods, spider ears and some of that essence that's almost impossible to get hold of now-a-days.

It was more expensive to do TV years ago so they were very picky on subject matter.
So documentries were more relevant, movies were more interesting, footie was fucking brill and there was no reality TV or Britains Got Talent.
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Paivi
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 31 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
So documentries were more relevant, movies were more interesting, footie was fucking brill and there was no reality TV or Britains Got Talent.

And history documentaries were called current affairs programmes.

Ah, the good old days.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 20:41 - 31 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:

It was more expensive to do TV years ago so they were very picky on subject matter.
So documentries were more relevant, movies were more interesting, footie was fucking brill and there was no reality TV or Britains Got Talent.


However, there was only a few channels when I was a kid. Initially only three, and in the 1980s some time (I forget when) when the commies at the BBC went on strike, only one channel on a bank holiday. This is why one of the highest rated programmes of all time in the UK was a James Bond movie, because there was nothing else to watch! Laughing
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 31 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
It was more expensive to do TV years ago so they were very picky on subject matter.
So documentries were more relevant, movies were more interesting, footie was fucking brill and there was no reality TV or Britains Got Talent.


Quite. I see that karma has finally caught up with Jeremy Kyle recently for all the crap he's spent years spreading on TV.
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