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shereen
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 27 Feb 2013    Post subject: Just a thought..... Reply with quote

Just randomly thinking - as you do and I thought what would happen if you was cornering round a sharp bend that you cannot see round, and there was a car broken down on the exit. Whos fault would it be if you crashed? If you had no time to stop or if there were vehicle travelling in the other direction making it impossible to use the other side of the road to avoid the obstacle.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 27 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can't stop in the distance you can see, you're going too fast. Hit something, it's your fault.
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Joe f
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 27 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'd be your fault, you should always be going slow enough round a blind bend to stop in time for an obstruction. In fact for that matter you should be going slow enough anywhere to be able to stop in time if such an incident did arise.

Although no-one ever does, or ever will, you've just gotta hope it doesn't happen!


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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 27 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you wondered why they were reluctant to give you insurance on an R1...... Rolling Eyes
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G
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 27 Feb 2013    Post subject: Re: Just a thought..... Reply with quote

There was a case of two riders who both were on here I think?

One crashed and the other piled in to him; the latter was trying to claim off the one who initially lost it.
Pretty sure that failed and in fact the first rider down may have managed to get some money out of the latter rider's insurance for further damage caused to his bike.

(Details are a bit fuzzy, so may have got it mixed up.)
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Clive L
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 27 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't matter whose fault if you are dead.

As everyone here already said, ride at a speed you can stop in the bit you already see, in your own lane
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yambabe
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PostPosted: 00:57 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Re: Just a thought..... Reply with quote

G wrote:
There was a case of two riders who both were on here I think?

One crashed and the other piled in to him; the latter was trying to claim off the one who initially lost it.
Pretty sure that failed and in fact the first rider down may have managed to get some money out of the latter rider's insurance for further damage caused to his bike.

(Details are a bit fuzzy, so may have got it mixed up.)


No you're right, I remember that too, it was 2 lads from South Wales.

Rider #1 lost it on the bend and slid out. Parted from the bike which was on its side in the road.

Rider #2 came round the bend, couldn't stop or avoid and ploughed into the downed bike.

Rider #2 tried to claim on the grounds that it was rider #1's fault, he lost. Caused a lot of bad blood at the time iirc.
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yambabe
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PostPosted: 01:08 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was ram_doom and Sephiroth if anyone wants to be bothered searching back......
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 01:34 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clive L wrote:
Doesn't matter whose fault if you are dead.

As everyone here already said, ride at a speed you can stop in the bit you already see, in your own lane


Technically you should be looking to stop within half the distance you can see, as the other half could be someone elses' braking distance who is just out of sight.
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Snorty
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PostPosted: 01:57 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

DivvyDumbarse wrote:
This happened to smiler, came round a bend to a crisp packet and ended up binning it, im pretty sure he tried to claim off Walkers for putting a bend there.

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Derivative
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PostPosted: 02:55 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black Sheep wrote:
Clive L wrote:
Doesn't matter whose fault if you are dead.

As everyone here already said, ride at a speed you can stop in the bit you already see, in your own lane


Technically you should be looking to stop within half the distance you can see, as the other half could be someone elses' braking distance who is just out of sight.


Er, what?
That doesn't make sense. They're not going to go backwards.

At least, I don't think you would hold liability if someone literally reversed into you around a corner.
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Dave_R
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PostPosted: 03:54 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:

Er, what?
That doesn't make sense. They're not going to go backwards.

At least, I don't think you would hold liability if someone literally reversed into you around a corner.


I think he means an oncoming vehicle.
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Easter Bunny
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PostPosted: 06:54 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some pretty dodgy bends out in Bedfordshire and met some right twats in cars on my side of the road before always wary of blind bends
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 07:35 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I differ. If you are broken down on the road you are supposed to put out a warning triangle. Even someone travelling at well within the speed limit can detect an obstructed object. Especially in fog, night, blind rise, sharp obstructed bend etc

Negligence is on the driver who didn't give ample warning of an obstruction.

The closest I came to rear ending someone was in the supermarket. I was walking down an aisle and got distracted and walked straight into the back of a huge fat woman. I'm not a small ou and a solid 95 kg (15 or 16 stone you poms would say?) former rugby prop but it was like hitting an immovable object. Outweighed me by far, with diameter makinbg up for lack of height. Brought me to dead stop and bonce back as if I had hit an All Black scrum.. I apologised but she didn't seem upset and smiled. Guess it wake a hit by a Casspir to dislodge that woman.

She could have accused me of negligence but then I could have said you didn't have one of those cautions Abnormal Load sign and no red flags Laughing and she was at anchor, standing still in the aisle, with a large cargo of supplies of chips, cool drink, choclate, biscuits, cakes etc, not wallowing along like a laden galleon under full sail Laughing
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Re: Just a thought..... Reply with quote

shereen wrote:
Just randomly thinking - as you do and I thought what would happen if you was cornering round a sharp bend that you cannot see round, and there was a car broken down on the exit. Whos fault would it be if you crashed? If you had no time to stop or if there were vehicle travelling in the other direction making it impossible to use the other side of the road to avoid the obstacle.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg/300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

Is it not logical to think that it might be your fault? How can it be the fault of the car driver who broke down? If you're entering a blind bend and you cannot stop, you're crazy.

There are ways of reading the road that might give you and indication of the problem, IE what oncoming traffic does, whether there are parts of the road that are visible further down even if the bend is completely blind etc. You need to read these to know what is happening, but even so you can never be sure. The worst examples of this sort of thing happen with tractors, as unlike cars there are no regulations to prevent them from having vast sharp spiky things on the back that would impale you as soon as look at you.

Jeez, what is it with people at the moment? Can't they work anything out for themselves?
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 08:57 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit marjay......

I was gonna post a facepalm!
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Re: Just a thought..... Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

Jeez, what is it with people at the moment? Can't they work anything out for themselves?


You're forgetting that most people can, but then think "Hmm...but I wonder what the law says..."

And then find the law tosses common sense, morality and justice straight down the shitter.

Hence why many apparently stupid legal questions are asked.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly OT, but:-

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
If you can't stop in the distance you can see, you're going too fast. Hit something, it's your fault.


Black Sheep wrote:
Technically you should be looking to stop within half the distance you can see, as the other half could be someone elses' braking distance who is just out of sight.


This is all very well in theory, and ticks all the 'elf & safety boxes, but in reality it's bollox!!!!!
If all road users did this traffic would, simply, grind to a halt.
Riding or driving, is a calculated risk, a risk you accept whenever you take a vehicle on the road.
Whether you like it or not, you have come to a decision about the amount of risk you're prepared to accept every time you venture out.
As shite as it sounds, whenever you're on the road, you have to put, at least, some trust in other road users, if we didn't, we'd all be walking!

It doesn't matter how much training you've had, how cautious you are, how much gear you're wearing, you simply cannot negate every possible risk.

Quote:
Accident:-
An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.


I CBA looking it up, but let's say 2500 people die on Britain's roads every year, the H&S brigade bang on, constantly, about reducing that number. It might be possible to reduce that number, but "accidents" do happen, with the amount of vehicles on the road, they're bound to, there's buggerall anyone can do about it.

As regular road users we have accepted that the annual death toll on the roads, is a price worth paying.
If you disagree with that why do you own a bike or a car?

We all ride bikes, we've all accepted that if we're involved in an "accident", the chances are we're going to get injured.
In my case, the grin factor, of owning and riding bikes is justification enough to accept the, inherent, risks!
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Last edited by Suntan Sid on 12:29 - 28 Feb 2013; edited 2 times in total
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 10:13 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eggs Benedict wrote:
There's some pretty dodgy drivers out in Bedfordshire and met some right twats in cars on my side of the road before always wary of blind bends


EFA.

Been down the B660, what a road. Laughing
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 10:13 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
Slightly OT, but:-

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
If you can't stop in the distance you can see, you're going too fast. Hit something, it's your fault.


Black Sheep wrote:
Technically you should be looking to stop within half the distance you can see, as the other half could be someone elses' braking distance who is just out of sight.


This is all very well in theory, and ticks all the 'elf & safety boxes, but in reality it's bollox!!!!!
If all road users did this traffic would, simply, grind to a halt.
Riding or driving, is a calculated risk, a risk you accept whenever you take a vehicle on the road.
Whether you like it or not, you have come to a decision about the amount of risk you're prepared to accept every time you venture out.
As shite as it sounds, whenever you're on the road, you have to put, at least, some trust in other road users, if we didn't, we'd all be walking!

It doesn't matter how much training you've had, how cautious you are, how much gear you're wearing, you simply cannot negate every possible risk.

Quote:
Accident:-
An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.


I CBA looking it up, but let's say 2500 people die on Britain's roads every year, the H&S brigade bang on, constantly, about reducing that number. It might be possible to reduce that number, but "accidents" do happen, with the amount of vehicles on the road, they're bound to, there's buggerall all anyone can do about it.

As regular road users we have accepted that the annual death toll on the roads, is a price worth paying.
If you disagree with that why do you own a bike or a car?

We all ride bikes, we've all accepted that if we're involved in an "accident", the chances are we're going to get injured.
In my case, the grin factor, of owning and riding bike is justification enough to accept the, inherent, risks!


A good analysis. Thumbs Up

I'd just like to add that for many of us it's the very fact of the danger that appeals, because it's one of the few remaining ways we can give the finger (to whatever takes our fancy).

No death, no glory.
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Shinigami
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

stopping distance is something that annoys me somewhat, every morning on the dual carriageway to work I am ALWAYS the only vehicle giving adequate distance to the car in front, everyone else drives at 70 and stay about 6 feet from each others bumpers Shocked
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Re: Just a thought..... Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Jeez, what is it with people at the moment? Can't they work anything out for themselves?

I for one applaud shereen's decision to seek advice from a smarter gender.

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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
I'd just like to add that for many of us it's the very fact of the danger that appeals, because it's one of the few remaining ways we can give the finger (to whatever takes our fancy).

No death, no glory.


Agreed Cool
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shereen
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 28 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
And you wondered why they were reluctant to give you insurance on an R1...... Rolling Eyes


Pull your head out of your arse Mike, theres a good boy. Thumbs Up

I was simply enquiring, and as Hetzer said, law and common sense are 2 different things.

If there was a pot hot on the bend that you couldnt avoid you would try and claim off the council if you crashed - well I would anyway.

If there is something somewhere that it shouldnt be and it causes an accident - then someone is liable?
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