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nelly18
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: co-operative bank Reply with quote

I moved from RBS to the co-operative bank cos I got really fed up with the RBS bonuses given to their management (after a government rescue package got them out of the poop)

Co-operative are an ethical bank, they don't give away my hard earned money and they don't squander it. What they did do, was offer me a £200 overdraft.

I'm so happy I moved Very Happy
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iooi
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suggest you read This then

Do you really understand, what they mean by ethical.........

Because
Quote:
they don't give away my hard earned money and they don't squander it.

It is not....
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really isn't as simple as you make out with regards to bonuses being paid.

Who squandered your money? Did you lose anything?
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except cooperative bank, bankrolls the Labour Party.
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mr jamez
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I am aware the co-op operate under the same model as the rest of the mainstream banks

Try searching for a credit union. Or perhaps the Islamic bank of Britain? Sharia law forbids usury and the bank is open to non Muslims, I am considering opening a business account with them but haven't really done enough research yet.

The Artist wrote:


Did you lose anything?


Of course he did, we all did Laughing
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr jamez wrote:

The Artist wrote:


Did you lose anything?


Of course he did, we all did Laughing


I meant his actual cash, not indirect tax. We bailed them out for a % of the bank. In the future, hopefully we will see this returned.

The idea that because a bank is publicly owned, they can't pay a bonus to top performing employees is stupid and the obvious problem is, they would just leave and find a job elsewhere that does pay for their talent.
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mr jamez
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:


I meant his actual cash, not indirect tax. We bailed them out for a % of the bank. In the future, hopefully we will see this returned.



Whether they take it straight out of your account Ala Cyprus, or take it via increased taxation etc; we're still paying. Either way you now have less money in your pocket.

Do you honestly believe we will ever get any money back? I don't.

The Artist wrote:
The idea that because a bank is publicly owned, they can't pay a bonus to top performing employees is stupid and the obvious problem is, they would just leave and find a job elsewhere that does pay for their talent.


Bankers are not talented. If we had a economy where the value was in skills and natural resources the bankers would be picking their meals out of dustbins.

The bonus stuff doesn't really bother me much.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:

pay for their talent.



Talent? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


https://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-charts/economics/uk/bankers-dont-have-talent-just-lots-of-borrowed-money-57728

https://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/feb/12/profits-bankers-talent-bonuses

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2272867/DAVID-BOLCHOVER-Bankers-paid-vast-sums-rare-talent.html

If they were so talented, why would they need a bail out? Surely if they were so talented we as tax payers can remove the tax payer bail out support? No?

Secondly bankers produce no wealth, its a ruse. Its all leverage. For every £1 a banker generates. He destroys £9 of productivity.

Thirdly its a hollow threat. Bankers work in the UK because the UK does not adhere to Basel II or III, Which means that money can be infinitely leveraged. Why do you think the MF Global fraud and Lehmans Brothers went through London and not Europe?

Asia tends to apply the death penalty to frauds, therefore where will they go?



We know its a ruse because they always threaten to leave.... but they don't. It's almost like having a whiny GF who threatens to kill herself if you leave her, after a number of bluffs, we know the threat is hollow.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah this talk of 'the bankers can't be punished because they'll leave' is RIDICULOUS. Makes it sound like there are only a handful of people, among the 60 million of us in this country, who know how to handle it all.

A really friendly guy I worked with once explained a few things to me.

Banks are a bank. They bank your money. And when they lend you money, then want a bit more back as payment. It's how they work. They don't just want to kindly hold on to your cash and hand over the queen's notes when required - "I promise to pay the bearer the sum of...". They use your custom to make money from you, who simply only wants a place to hold the cash. We're not allowed to keep in under our mattresses any more, it seems. Beats me how it all started to be honest - money seems to have just grown from nothing to something, and now to millions, billions and trillions. Who lent the first pound? And if they lent that one single and only pound, how did they charge interest on it?

Building societies were the better versions of money storage. They started out literally as societies of people who would all club their money together and buy buildings. This concept moved on to the concept of basically every penny in the building society is used to 'build' for the members - investments, etc. They don't use the members' cash to make personal profit for the management. It's all about the society.

Banks, however, are out to make a profit from their members, who aren't actually members at all because they're customers.

I'm not sure where co-op comes into this. Just though I'd mention what I was told a while ago. I think co-op leans much more into the 'building society' category.

To be honest all financial institutions are the same these days. Every single arm of the finance world is pointless and totally neglects the human aspect - insurance, accounting, law (bits of it), stocks, banking, etc. These industries were NEVER for the people they 'serve'. They're for the profit of the ones doing the money juggling. Makes no sense to me AT ALL.

Think about it from a utilitarian sense: Banks. What do they do? They're a load of big buildings with offices, computers, telephones, water dispensers and people in cheap suits. But what do they physically provide for the people of the planet? Not much. Just a service - a bit of paperwork and admin time. YET THEY ARE THE RICHEST ENTITIES ON THE PLANET??!!?!? How does that make sense??!?!?!?!??!? What about the farmers, the builders, the doctors, nurses, police, paramedics, mechanics, care workers, etc, etc, all earning average wages doing things we NEED! Meanwhile, man in suit in big ivory tower is given the king's fucking pickings just because he wormed his way to the top of what is no more than an administrative service for the people. Bankers should be given what they're physically worth, regarding the level of value they are to society - FUCK ALL.

Aaaaah. Rant Cool
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mr jamez
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 18 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

sa1988 wrote:

Beats me how it all started to be honest - money seems to have just grown from nothing to something, and now to millions, billions and trillions. Who lent the first pound? And if they lent that one single and only pound, how did they charge interest on it?



"money as debt" on you tube (pretty sure that is the name)
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Legsy.
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PostPosted: 01:41 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is easy to be populist.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 08:37 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

sa1988 wrote:
Every single arm of the finance world is pointless and totally neglects the human aspect


Wrong, lots of things are about risk management.

Shuffling risk onto those who are most capable to bear it.

Commodities futures for example.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr jamez wrote:
Try searching for a credit union. Or perhaps the Islamic bank of Britain? Sharia law forbids usury and the bank is open to non Muslims, I am considering opening a business account with them but haven't really done enough research yet.


Hah! I looked into it when changing my mortgage deal. Sure, you can't pay interest on the mortgage amount, but you can pay rent for the bit of the house you don't own. Rather surreptitiously the amount of rent you pay tallies almost directly with a similar mortgage interest amount (+ a little bit on top as it's a specialist product). The amount can even vary along with the BoE base rate due to a little careful wording in the T&Cs.

In short, it's no different to any other banking other than a bit of wordplay to keep the religious happy.
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Benno
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legsy. wrote:
It is easy to be populist.


True, and though populism is often poorly informed, in this case I think I would disagree with what you are trying to imply. In no way can I believe the banks are not c*nts.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpies wrote:
If they were so talented, why would they need a bail out? Surely if they were so talented we as tax payers can remove the tax payer bail out support? No?
.


Only Lloyds and RBS needed bailing out.

Lloyds, only needed it because a certain PM G Brown sold RBS to them as a good deal that was a sure fire winner... Even though every other body said it was not and they should not be able to buy them.
Still good old GB overruled everyone else and sold Lloyds a sinking ship.
Which in the end ment 2 instead of one requied a bailout... Still the good news is in time it will be a good deal and if the politicans work it right will payback bit time.
Of course there is the danger that they won't and end up selling short just to get a quick influx of funds.

The rest of the banks managed just fine without funding. So their talent worked just fine.
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willis1337
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can't beat them....at least make some money out of them:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/compare-best-bank-accounts

Santander - cashback on your bills + 3% interest.
First Direct - £100 opening bonus and if you leave them before 12 months (but after 6) another £100.

If the monthly deposit amounts are borderline, then nothing to stop you transferring money out, then back into the account, each month, to bump up the monthly incoming deposit total to reach the required amount.
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Minty
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
fatpies wrote:
If they were so talented, why would they need a bail out? Surely if they were so talented we as tax payers can remove the tax payer bail out support? No?
.


Only Lloyds and RBS needed bailing out.

Lloyds, only needed it because a certain PM G Brown sold RBS to them as a good deal that was a sure fire winner... Even though every other body said it was not and they should not be able to buy them.
Still good old GB overruled everyone else and sold Lloyds a sinking ship.
Which in the end ment 2 instead of one requied a bailout... Still the good news is in time it will be a good deal and if the politicans work it right will payback bit time.
Of course there is the danger that they won't and end up selling short just to get a quick influx of funds.

The rest of the banks managed just fine without funding. So their talent worked just fine.



Er, you mean TSB?
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Last edited by Minty on 16:43 - 19 Mar 2013; edited 1 time in total
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:

The rest of the banks managed just fine without funding. So their talent worked just fine.



Other banks needed bailouts, just they got it from elsewhere.

Barclays got it from arab investors.

HSBC money laundered.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few other examples of my loss on the concept of money and its apparent worth:

Sports stars, singers, religious leaders, even politicians. What do the physically do that is actually constructive for the planet? The only 'iffy' one is politicians, who may have their work cut out, but I'm pretty sure all they're supposed to do, in theory, is speak for the people, and hence are nothing more than a relay of information for the general public to voice opinions to the government. And since the government doesn't listen to the people any more anyway (protests of 1 million in London on more than one occasion, brushed under the carpet with no changed at all), what use is a politician?

Right communist, me Laughing

Edit:

Consider it another way:

A small community of, say, 30 people, living in old basic traditional days, in quite a remote place. You'd have farming, basic construction and engineering, a certain level of primitive healthcare, cooks, childcarers, etc. You'd also have the people who were good at certain village sports, musicians, singers, artists and the likes. These people would be valued for what they do, but only in their spare time, in the evening or on free days. Nobody at all would be happy if these people wasted every single day doing such unproductive things.

Yet in our modern society, these wasters are rewarded the highest by far. Ok, not artists, but the others get WAY too much. Actually quite staggering.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minty wrote:

Er, you mean TSB?


Lloyds & TSB are one and the same. Untill the last few months when TSB name has once again been set free as Lloyds had to sell off a large chunk of their branches.
For once the EU has done the right thing...
Now bought by Co-op.... But to transfer hte branches. They hve to be set up on their own (TSB) and then merged into the Co-op....
So massive wasted rebranding costs Embarassed
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpies wrote:
The Artist wrote:

pay for their talent.



Talent? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing



Doesn't matter. Banks are still willing to pay them lots of money.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

sa1988 wrote:
Yet in our modern society, these wasters are rewarded the highest by far. Ok, not artists, but the others get WAY too much. Actually quite staggering.


You miss the point entirely.

The killer point is about freewill and consequences.

All those musicians? Sports stars? So they may well be unproductive wasters, they may well be untalented.

The difference is if they are crap.... then you can choose not to buy their services...

There are minimal consequences to choosing not to use or buy their services. Keeping your money in your wallet.

I don't follow much modern music, but The Killers produce a CD, I can choose to buy it or not, or even steal it via downloading.


While public sector wasters?

Can you choose not to buy their services? You can choose not to use them. However can you choose not to pay for it?

No, there are large consequences to not paying for these services i.e. not paying taxes, its leg breaky time.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:


Doesn't matter. Banks are still willing to pay them lots of money.



Yes it does matter.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-20/americas-tbtf-bank-subsidy-taxpayers-83-billion-year

In the US (which can be applied to the UK) if banks were not given government aid their profits are a LOT less than they state.
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Redoko
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 19 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get my bonus next week.

https://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/gaza_12_31/g22_17448829.jpg
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 20 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpies wrote:


The killer point is about freewill and consequences.


Yeah, this crossed my mind at some point earlier actually. It's still quite ridiculous though. I guess in my little lefty hippy socio-communist mind, I'd just want these big earners reigned in by the government and all their wealth distributed back into useful causes in society. I mean, everyone agrees these people earn far too much for what they do, so why don't our representatives - the government - do something about it to make things a bit more equal? Particularly regarding the balance of work against earnings - entertaining the people shouldn't really pay what it does, for example.

Think I'll leave it there though. In my mind I'm a massive communist but I do know it would never work in reality; such is the human condition.
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