Lucky or Defensive?

[Bendy]

I am aware that I'm probably hexing myself by even posting this, but meh...

I've been riding for five years, about four of which was riding virtually every day around London.

In those five years nobody has ever pulled out on me.

Okay, let me quantify a little. People have made a move to pull out a little bit, then stopped. The nearest I ever got was a guy on a roundabout where if I hadn't changed my path, I would have hit him. But I've never had anyone pull out in a way that meant I had to slam the brakes on and hope I didn't hit them.

So the question is, am I lucky or am I defensive?

[Spiral]

Lucky , i have been pulled out on a few times (one of the first times it happened i kamikazed over her bonnet) and each time my heart stops for a second or two but i do see a lot of drivers about to pull out then see me and stop but they are way over the line.
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[stryker]

I guess you can consider yourself defensive the day someone does pull out on you, yet by instinct you avoid the accident by being able to stop or take your escape route.

Anyone here drive before they got the bike license? Since I've had the bike I feel I've become so much more aware of whats happening on the road.
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Now what?

[DynaMight]

Bit of both

I've been riding almost 5 years also, Done over 40,000miles in that time and never had anyone really pull out on me. Well I've had a few times when someone started to then saw me etc

I dont filter/overtake if it's anywhere near a junction
I filter quite slowly and always check for car indicators or pedrestians crossing
I try to never assume what the driver will do, Always treat them as they are about to kill you

Doesnt matter how defensive you are sometimes it's just out of your hands.
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[Scratchy]

I suggest it's down to your defensive riding than pure luck. You are anticipating potential conflict with other vehicles and are adusting your speed and/or position to allow them to be more aware of you or to allow them to make an error without you having to make sudden changes in speed and/or direction.
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[stryker]

True, I guess she could of avoided many potential bumps by reading the road.

Sorry, my bad
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[mrchips]

I've been pulled out on a few times, but nothing I havn't been able to stop. Had one scary incident involving a Saxo VTR overtaking from the other side, now that made my heart stop.

[tgabber]

Riding in London, hearing other peoples stories and personally knowing a couple of people who it's happened to has made me fairly paranoid about being pulled out on, therefore I'm generally extra careful around junctions.

Doesn't mean to say it won't happen someday though. I've had a couple of close calls. Once when I was at the front at the lights, in the righthand lane but intending to go straight on, some nutter in the lefthand lane decided they wanted to turn right and did so at speed as soon as the lights changed without indicating or looking. I'd started to make my move away from the lights but was able to stop in time.

On the other occasion, I was turning right from a major road into a minor and there was a car waiting to turn right out of the minor road. As is my habit in these situations I looked at the driver to make sure she'd seen me which, as our eyes had met, I was convinced she had. Then when the gap in the traffic came she pulled out right across my path. I had to stop suddenly and nearly dropped the bike.

So Bendy, if you're anything like me, you're a defensive rider with a bit of luck thrown in. Or, if you don't believe in luck, the Gods are smiling on you (for now ).
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[Kickstart]

Hi

Yep, defensive and reading peoples intentions and reacting without realising it.

Probably a small amount of luck that you have not yet found one of the truely homicidal drivers that are around.

All the best

Keith
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[JonB]

Definately a skill in itself, defensive riding and when performed right, you can rarely come off, but don't jinx yourself, please.
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[cruisin chris]

I'd say defensive. A guy sorta pulled out in front of me the other night as i was pulling into a roundabout, i ended up doing a stoppie to avoid hitting the side of him, was instinct at the time just to grab the front brake.

[Josh]

I'd say defensive, because I am lucky, I have in 2 1/2 years of riding like a hooligan, not come off once and only had two near misses where someone has pulled out on me, I find going too fast scares people back, and down in Devon the drivers are timid enough anyway.
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[Rory]

Advancing training usually teaches that if you anticipate that something could happen while you're driving / riding, you'll react much faster than if you didn't anticipate the possibility. Hence if you're expecting every driver at a junction to pull out on you, you'll start braking as soon as it looks like they might do it.

So, defensive. Good for you
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[Silver]

You can ride defensively and still have people pull out on you (I have), it just means you're better prepared to deal with it when it happens

[Sparks!]

I'd say it is a bit of both, you're lucky but you also ride sensibly so less likely to have an accident, plus you have a bright yellow bike so people should see you coming sooner

I've found now I can pull out safely onto a busy road without too much hassle, a year ago I could be waiting there for ages it's all about eye contact with drivers and half the time they WILL stop....

I also know , on my commute to and from work, where people WILL try to cut me up and can be prepared for that, even when prepared I've still had people ALMOST knock me off, makes me wonder if I didn't know the danger spots, would I have been knocked off by now?

You can almost predict what other car drivers are going to do, it's like a 6th sense
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[Flip]

I guess it depends how often you use your bike too. Two crashes in three years but thats everyday use, winter too. Can't help but think there is an element of luck involved too

[Wave2k]

dont say that u have been jynx, somebody will pull out on you soon

ive had about 4-5 people pull out on me mainly cos i live in a area where no one give a sh*t
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[Robby]

I'd say defensive.

We hear lots of stories on here about people being pulled out on, but they are often from inexperience 50 or 125 riders, who from their other anecdotes don't seem to understand riding defensively and general observations.

For my 2p, In 4 years on the road I've been pulled out on once, about a week ago in my car. A white rover pulled out in front of me with no observation or braking. As Keith said, there are still a few truly homicidal drivers out there.

[ian_s]

I would say it is luck. Your road position can increase your visibility and make sure you are seen by somebody waiting at a junction. However, if they just glance before moving you haven't got much of a chance .


I almost hit an elderly driver in my car at a staggered junction a few months back. I was the only car coming down the road and noticed this guy a long way off sat at a junction when he could have easily safely pulled out in front of me. It looked like he was playing it safe and waiting for me to pass. I then noticed somone about to pull out on me about 30 foot down the road and was annoyed as I would have to slow down for them, next thing I know from the corner of my eye I see the front of this car. I was already about to brake so imediatly stood on the breaks. I missed him by about a foot and then held my hand down on the horn at which point he promptly swerved into the middle of the road. I was so close I guess I was in his blind spot from his A pillar when he promptly forgot about me and pulled out.

[Claud 14.7 to 1]

I recon it’s because of your defensive riding, for the most part.

Luck has a bit to do with it, but if you ride defensively, you can avoid loads of dangerous situations, where a crash might have happened had you not used this skill.

I ride defensively approaching junctions: slow down so the waiting cars have more time to see you. Position yourself so they have the best view of you. Cover the brakes, or get ready to steer. Make sure you have an "escape path" in case they do pull out. Try to read the car, ie wheels, where it is positioned and the car's/driver's "behaviour".

Those kinda things.

Luck to a small extent, but ride properly and your chances of being in an accident in these kinds of situations are seriously reduced.

Keep up the good riding.

[Ian (GPX)]

I'd say you have been lucky Bendy, also with the years (4) of being on the road, you have learnt to read what others are going to / might do and so adjust your riding to suite.

[Bendy]

Okay, I started this thread as a 'get people to think whether they make their own luck' kinda thing, so here's my analysis...

I'm really defensive. Whether that's just 'me' or whether it comes from experience gained from ten years on the road (did cars first) I don't know. I'm not a risk-taker so maybe that pushes my 'luck' factor up somewhat.

FWIW, I don't actually believe in luck per se. Yes, there can always be that homicidal maniac you can't do anything about, or that mechanical failure that you could never have forseen, but I think for the rest of it you really make your own luck on the roads. The more you're aware of, the less surprises you.

Not sure where my point's ended up, other than 'expect the unexpected' really. Rubber side down, people.

[Claud 14.7 to 1]

Yeah luck schmuck. Its chance/probability you need to think about.

Chances are if I go out at half 6 (rush hour) on the hottest day of the year there will be many dopey/annoyed car drivers about.

You do make your own "luck" in sofar that the safer you ride the less chance you have of coming off.

Like there was a high chance I could come off today with the weather being really bad here, and I did. I took the chance.

Things dont always plan out the way you want them to.

[Scooby]

Funny you should mention this. I have been riding for 4 years, probably 3 of those years was using a bike nearly every day. The first time I had someone pull out on me was last week, I looked the guy straight in the eyes and he still pulled out on me. I locked the back wheel up stupidly, but skidded and managed to keep the bike upright. He then wound his window down shouted 'sorry mate' then proceeded to fuck off.

I'd say you were defensive though from what you've said.

Hint for anyone should they want to take it, I used to look drivers straight in the eyes to make sure they weren't going to pull out on me. After last week I have now changed. I now look at the front tyres of the car, seems to have more benefit.
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