CBT Troubles?

[Barker-CBR 600]

Lo, a long one coming here

Posting on behalf of a mate who dont know if theres anything he can do -

Mate took (and failed) his CBT yesterday and after speaking to him about it it all looks a bit fishy to me.

Basically he was due to borrow 'all the gear' from the place, so when he turned up (was cold so he was wearing thermals, two jumpers and his own boots) he was immiediatly told to 'go home'.

Not even 'go home and get some gear and come back' or anything but that he couldnt do the course without warm cloths. So frantic he rung his dad an got a mate of a mate to give him a full leather suit and gloves etc... so the day started.

He was one of three pupils to the one instructor and by far the youngest (17, others were 26-27) and found himself pretty much ignored most of the day, (this is based on what he told me), not really talked to and generally not instructed a huge deal as the other two got most of the similar aged instructors attention.

Then when it came to the road riding my mate was told simply that the instructor didnt want to take him on the road due to 'not being good enough at balancing.'

Would have been fair enough, but with the U-turns he had completed them all fine from first-last time. And with the figure of eights did them fine tons of times but found the instructor never noticed as his wife had turned up and they spent most of the time talkin to eachother at other end of carpark.

According to my mate the thing that struck him as odd was, three pupils to one instructor and i had told him (am i right?) that it legally can be no more than 2-1 ratio. And it seems like he had been pretty much setup to not be taken out in the first place, since by the time the road riding (2 hours isnt it?) came about it was already mid afternoon so two sessions wouldnt have been possible.


So anyways, the point of my thread.

Anywhere the guy can call/speak to about this place and see if it warrants a complaint or anything?

He's redoiing his CBT this sat at a different place (got an '04 NSR sitting in the garage!!!) but still feels a bit conned.

And any one else had any troubles etc?
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Previous - Gilera DNA50 / XVS125 Dragstar/Honda CBR 600F/GSF 650 Bandit
Current - 2013 Suzuki VZ800 Intruder
'Is this a rhetorical question?'

[instigator]

It can be no more than 2-1 ratio on a cbt, or that is the generally maximum accepted amount. Write to MCN, or something like that, Ride maybe as they recently did a article on the quality of cbt's.

I'd put in an official complaint and get some advice from someone on the legal side of things. The bit thats hard to prove is that he says he wasn't good enough for going on the road and I'd imagine he's a professional instructor.

This disgusts me....

EDIT: Can the guy track down the other 2 trainees? As they could be good alliby's if he needs proof that he was competent enough.

[Ian (GPX)]

Hmmm........

I'd write to the company if I was your mate and ask for the CBT to be done free from charge and on a 1:1 basis. As far as I know, the CBT ratio is 1:1 and 2:1 and not 3:1.

I'd also ask for an apology from the company and the instructor in question if he really did act this way as your mate said.

The road ride is a minimum of 2 hours to show that you are safe on the road during this time out with the instructor, while at the same time the instructor is giving you extra info about the ride that your on, this includes how you should take left and right turns, check mirrors, lifesavers and your position in the road etc.

You can also complain to the DSA, as the DSA is the only real place you can complain about an ATB (Approved Training Body) for Compulsory Basic Training (CBT).

[Barker-CBR 600]

Hmm probably not able to track them down without speaking to the instructor.. which would be an interesting conversation

Yeah first place i checked was that article in ride, but doesnt give a number or address to speak to for complaints


Hit it on the head there with the difficulty of it all, the guys an instructor and cant exactly say he isnt qualified to say who is and isnt good enough... but just a pain to make sure he was being truthful or not.

I'll get him to write to maybe MCN and Ride (the replies in magasine usually helpful, wonder if they reply to all letters?).

Maybe even call up the instructor himself to speak about it... maybe the guy wont want the trouble (which will show he's dodgy) and refund it, or maybe justify things a little more clearly.
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Previous - Gilera DNA50 / XVS125 Dragstar/Honda CBR 600F/GSF 650 Bandit
Current - 2013 Suzuki VZ800 Intruder
'Is this a rhetorical question?'

[G]

If the instructor's working for a company, talk to the manager of the comapany and make a fuss. If this doesn't produce a positive attitude maybe mention that you will be looking to take further action through other parties.

[JonB]

Looks like your mate caught the instructor on a bad day. We had 5 five people taking a CBT hwne I did it and it was generally good fun and I really enjoyed it, I guess it just depends on who you have instructing you.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[T.C]

Firstly the student can wear what he likes (helmet being a legal requirement of course) and he cannot be sent home just because of the kit (or lack of it). The whole point of the talk on clothing at the start of the course is so that the students have a little knowledge that they can use when they go to buy their kit, and they can decide what sort of kit they want. I have had students (as have many of my instructor colleagues) turn up no end of times in jeans and trainers and often without so much as a pair of gloves, but the whole point of module 1 is to educate them, not alienate them, so to send someone home because of the kit is a no no!

The off road element of CBT is a maximum ratio of 4:1, but when they go on road then it drops to 2:1 and they must do a minimum of 2 hours on road which must also incorporate emergency stops and U turns before their licence will be validated.

If the instructor was unprofessional (which sound to be the case) then I would suggest that he writes to the head of the training body concerned, but also do a copy to The CBT section, Driving Standards Agency, Stanley House, Talbot Street, Nottingham, and a copy to the supervising examiner at the local test centre.

CBT's are not policed that well, but when they get a complaint they will look at the nature of the complaint and send someone to look at what is being done, sometimes they will do it on a blind call, or go in as a dummy student, but they will investigate those bodies who are coming up short and either revoke the CBT1 for the instructor (the instructors CBT licence) or revoke the ATB's authorisation to conduct CBT's, particularly if the ATB has had a number of complaints or been found wanting on previous visits.

I know that a few ATB's are currently under review for completing CBT courses in under 2 hours from start to finish, and one of the students who caught them was actually a DSA examiner under cover, so write to them and let them know!
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It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[JonB]

[Raffles_Gentleman Thug]

Stories like this really p1ss me off. The whole point of being an instructor surely isn't to fail people, but to bring them up to a certain standard?

If you dont like teaching people, or even young people, then why be an instructor? I hope your mate gets it sorted, and ever thank heavens for TC, the US Cavalry of BCF, Ridersite and M&M!
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"Is sir addressing me or is he masticating on a house brick? Because either way sir loses his teeth."

[neon]

whats the name of the company who your mate did the CBT with?

[Barker-CBR 600]

ABC Riding School
Gary Sibley

Didnt wanna say unless asked (or mate said say) case someone knows him lol.

I think he runs it himself, so not much chance of doing much other than speaking to him or complaining to DSA and i dont think mate can be bothered with it, despite my bugging him. Just redoing it somewhere else this weekend and putting it down to bad luck which i guess is up to him.
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Previous - Gilera DNA50 / XVS125 Dragstar/Honda CBR 600F/GSF 650 Bandit
Current - 2013 Suzuki VZ800 Intruder
'Is this a rhetorical question?'