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Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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 Posted: 22:37 - 26 Mar 2013  Post subject: Making own carbon parts? |
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Is this possible? My tank cover is... damaged now  Thought I like carbon... and wondered if its possible to make your own parts with it etc. Ideally just the tank cover is needed but would be nice to be able to make one off bits etc. |
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Ariel Badger
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moppy
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| Posted: 22:50 - 26 Mar 2013 Post subject: |
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| Guy on ZZR-Int who makes carbon parts wrote: | Guy's,
I just thought that I would give you an informative run through on how the Carbon Fibre stuff is made and why it is so time consuming.
Firstly when a cutomer orders something and payment is made, a decision has been made by the customer as to what colour they would like the item in whether it is to match the bike or just to be a standard Black colour for aesthetic purposes that Carbon offers.
So if I havent got the colour cloth in stock then its ordered from the suppliers the same day which generally arrives with me the following day, if not then no later than 48 hours later!
Only when I have the cloth do I start preparing the molds, first with a mold cleaner before each mold taken to ensure the highest finish on the parts, this cleaner has to be applied (Like waxing your car) in stages and left to 'tack off', this takes half a day or so as it has to have 4 or 5 applications of the mold cleaner to get the mold completely clean!
Once the cleaning is done, then its time to apply the release agent to enable the parts to come out of the mold freely and also so they dont stick to the mold (Had that happen before, it destroyed the part coming out of the mold and had to repair the mold too - let me tell you the air was dark purple - not blue - with the language being used!! ) This require 4 or 5 coats of Honey Wax and 2 coats of PVA Release Agent. Waxing has the same priciple as on your car or bike, apply, leave to go misty, buff off, so this again take half a day to do, then the PVA Release Agent goes on, first layer left to dry for 2 hours, then the second layer has to go on under no pressure cause if you put it on to hard then you take off the first layer so you have to be very delicate in doing it. Again this is left to dry, generally overnight now.
Doing the cleaning and wax/release agent, you have to make sure you get into any tiny corners, gaps, etc, and that what takes the time!!
After that little lot is done, then the first layer of epoxy resin can go down on the mold surface, it is critical that this is done properly otherwise the part looks shit if its not done right. Same principle as using gloss paint really, thin even coats and long sweeping brush strokes, work in one direction only.
So the first layer goes in on a medium cure basis, meaning it will go tacky within 6 to 8 hours, which is what we want. Just taky enough where you can touch it lightly with some latex gloves on and the gloves slightly stick to it but no resin comes away onto the gloves!
Leave it to 'tack off' then a second THIN coat of epoxy goes on top of the first. Again, leave this to 'tack off', this is the important bit and where the late nights come in on making the parts!
One the second layer has 'tacked off' as above, then the cloth can go down into the mold, this is VERY critical that its done right cause you NEVER get a second chance doing it again! I get the mrs to help me do molds such as huggers, surrounds, tank protectors, etc cause of the sheer size of them.
So - lay the cloth into the mold, choosing to you want the weave of the cloth straight or diagonal. Working from the center outwards, gently at the start, pushing the cloth down onto the resin, and manipulating it into the corners, radius points of the mold and when thats done and happy with it, leave it to settle for 30 mins or so. This settling enables you to see if the cloth is trying to pull away from any areas of the mold, called 'Bridging' and what causes air bubbles in the resin!
In this 3 mins you will also be able to push the cloth further into the resin again done carefully. Dont be afraid to get your fingers in there and work the cloth and resin. Some tacky resin will leach through the cloth which is fine, but its at this point you can see the part coming to life. You also want to cut away any excess cloth from the edges of the mold and leave about a half inch overlap of cloth on the mold edges. This stops the cloth sagging and pulling it away from the resin as its curing.
Now, another layer of resin goes on top of the cloth, slightly quicker cure time on this mix but a lot more resin than was used in the previous two coats, the surface of the cloth after this application of resin should look like a wet road surface. And leave this to cure overnight. Again cutting away the excess cloth on the mold edges.
After that has cured, then 2 more layers of carbon go down on top of the first in the same way as the first layer and left to cure.
This has now taken 2 or 3 days so far!!
Your part has now cured and can be split from the mold.......Gently, use force if you have to but NEVER use any tools to pry it out of the mold or you wreck the part and even worse, destroy your mold entirely!!
The part is free, and your in love!! Just needs to be trimmed, sanded, polished now. Its not over yet!
So the parts edges are trimmed with a Dremel and a cutting disc, being careful not to keep smashing the discs and having them hit you in the face all the time like I do! (Like bloody scarface and tools get hurled across the work shop followed by various obscenities!). Go careful trimming up, one slip and its all ruined.
After trimming, lightley sand the edges of the parts to remove any burs, starting with 240 grit paper working up to 1500 paper, wet sanding. Same on the part surface if there are any impersfections on the part.
Once happy, polish up using Polishing Compound, any from Halfords will do, medium to fine grade, 2 or 3 applications, but........ignore the instructions on the compound do it this way. Put compound dircetly on to the part and work over part in circular motion with cloth spreading evenly, leave to mist over like wax for an hour, then buff off, do this twice and the part will come up really well.
This is left overnight then to all settle.
Personal preference if you want to go a step further and put a coat of clear lacquer (Halfords is best!!) over the part now, really brings up the shine, and polish twice again! This is left overnight then
Now the part is done, call customer, tell him its ready, show him pictures, show off on forum and tease customer, pack part, send out, customer loves you!!
So there we have it, a run through of how its done. 4 or 5 days work there just for one part, whether its a Stator Cover Casing or a Hugger, its all done the same way!
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That's the process apparently. Hope he doesn't mind that I've copy-pastad... |
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Red Rocket
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J.M.
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| Posted: 23:00 - 26 Mar 2013 Post subject: |
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Making a mould doesn't seem too hard providing that you have an item in good physical shape to make the mould from.
Other than that it's just time consuming and a little costly. From everything I read up on about it... you could be looking at several days to create a good mould.
Think I watched this video on making a mould: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp137oWIHpQ
I'm going to attempt making parts in the future. Maybe sometime after Spain I'll try and design my own fairings for the bike.
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Ariel Badger
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| Posted: 23:08 - 26 Mar 2013 Post subject: |
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Shiny side goes against the mould Paddy, good mould is the secret.
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Nexus Icon
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| Posted: 23:33 - 26 Mar 2013 Post subject: |
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Done the DIY route you'd probably get better results laying up a couple of ply of CF over glass-fibre rather than try making the whole thing from CF. it'd certainly be cheaper to throw away the first couple of balls-ups 
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Casper
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| Posted: 23:43 - 26 Mar 2013 Post subject: |
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Shinigami
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Red Rocket
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| Posted: 08:30 - 27 Mar 2013 Post subject: |
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Very true Nexus, great idea. Few layers of fibreglass, then 2 or 3 layers of CF.
I just want the look really, the weight is no bother, just like CF 
I suppose taking a mould from the inside of the tank cover is the smartest move. Any easy ways to make a mould? |
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DoohanFan
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| Posted: 10:27 - 27 Mar 2013 Post subject: |
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Another way of doing it would be to use pre preg carbon fibre ie it has the resin system built in.
That's what we use on some of the parts at work for a certain well known Italian car company. 
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Red Rocket
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| Posted: 10:46 - 27 Mar 2013 Post subject: |
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Requires heat for the pre preg stuff though by the looks of it.
It is annoying, I'd pay someone to do it as I don't need my tank cover for a while |
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salty21
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Red Rocket
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| Posted: 23:38 - 27 Mar 2013 Post subject: |
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Have messaged him as he had some weave left but never gets back to me |
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bEN_
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| Posted: 11:43 - 01 Apr 2013 Post subject: |
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I've changed how it notifies me when i recieve a message now so i shouldn't miss any
sorry about not getting back to you, i have 2 types i can send you if you like ( free of charge ) , plain or twil weave carbon.
if you had an 848 i could make you a tank cover, i made my own mold off my tank and changed the shape of it quite abit and really pleased with the results.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 277 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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