Full lock turns etc

[The999Kid]

Hi all,

Just started thinking about my slow riding and manoeuvres in the past few weeks. I want to get my slow riding, full lock turns, and general bike manoeuvrability upto a standard equal in confidence and ability to my normal road riding.

I've pulled some exercises off the net, things like a offset slalom, u turns, figure 8, the American death box etc but they don't come with any useful tips on completing them, or at least any useful notes for progression up to being able to do them...

Currently I have a tape measure and some pavement chalk to work with for marking out "cones" etc a nice quiet car park in the Coventry area would be a nice signpost as well..

Any thoughts?
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NDB 19/10/1989 - 1/11/2010 |Nowhere.Elyseum wrote: I get the distinct feeling that Tim should be our secret weapon for future trolling. I don't know many people that can rip the piss in Iambic pentameter

[G]

Think the two basic things are "look where you're going" and "keep the power up".
Often it's not advised to go for completely full lock as that doesn't leave you any control in one direction.
However, the main trick for me is just to force your body to override the survival reactions that want to cut power if it gets wobbly - as obviously that's what leads to feet-down.

[Turkish]

Buy 8 cones.
Position the first 7 two bike lengths apart in a straight line, no tape measure needed; and the last one 3 bike lengths from the others.
This is a basic mod 1 cone setup.
Practice slalom, FO8, slow riding.
Aim to do a u-turn within 2 spaces - about 8 metres.
Reduce the cone gaps to 1.75, 1.5 bike lengths, and so on.



In two afternoons I went from wobbly-droppy slow ride to smooth and confident, it just takes practice.

I found that leaning backward taking weight off the forks made it easier. Dragging the rear brake didn't help much.
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ZX-6R G2
CBR125R RW6

[ElBandido]

during my Mod2 training, my instructor got me to let the clutch out fully (in 1st gear) and by dragging the control brake i was was going in full circles on a standard width road.

having said that, i went to an IAM 'slow sleep control' evening last year and the guys there scoffed (with no effort made to hide their disgust and disdain) when i asked about the full lock turning at low speed.
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Bike: 2009 Bandit 650 | Licensed since: January 2012 | They stole my valve caps, the scum!

[BTTD]

When I first got a bigger heavier bike I had a couple of practices in a local B&Q car park on an early Sunday morning just to get the feel of it.
Didn't mark anything out with chalk, just used the marked bays and lanes as guides. Started just making easy wide turns and then got tighter as I got used to the feel of the bike.
Took my time, and made sure I had room to go wide (stay away from the kerbs).

Most of my low speed riding is filtering through heavy traffic so don't use full lock manoeuvres much.
Bike instructor advised me to never make a u-turn on a bike. His reason - why bother? Too easy to fck it up and drop the bike. Do a three point or more turn instead.

Good luck with the practice, and hopefully you'll be one of those people I enviously watch full lock turning a race bike in a gravel car park like a boss.

[Nick_Giles]

[The999Kid]

Thanks folks! keep the ideas coming
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NDB 19/10/1989 - 1/11/2010 |Nowhere.Elyseum wrote: I get the distinct feeling that Tim should be our secret weapon for future trolling. I don't know many people that can rip the piss in Iambic pentameter

[Efes123]

[The999Kid]

[barrkel]

With steering on full lock, half your control is taken away, and needs to be replaced with speed control. Normal steering instincts lead you wrong.

For example, with full left lock, more throttle will cause the bike to roll to the right, while very slight front brake will cause it to roll to the left. But it's very easy to overdo the brake, and drop the bike, so better to steer rather than brake to roll to the left.

When you start falling in to the centre of the turn, and you're at full lock, the thing you need is more throttle.

The rear brake is useful for keeping the whole transmission taut, removing the lash in fine throttle control.

When I'm on my scooter, I use full lock steering (combined with what Tef would call "counter-leaning") quite often to steer through (i.e. from one side to the other) queues of cars. I wear out rear pads faster than front pads on it. I don't do it as often on the much heavier (and top heavy) VFR, not least because it has a very big turning circle, and tends to pinch my gloved thumb between clipons and the tank at lock.

Close to full lock u-turns are also handy for side roads coming on to main roads that make it hard to turn right. You can turn left, then look for an opportunity to quickly turn around. It also gives you more confidence navigating the city, because you know missing a turnoff isn't a big deal.
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Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ

[G]

Consider other methods to turn tightly, too.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h4Svknhcw4s/0.jpg

[thx1138]

when practicing real slow tight turning lean away with head shoulders outside of angle of lean, not inside

[kramdra]

600's are often geared too high in first for doing slow manouvers without clutch but on a 125 its perfect. I can do them easily, except at full lock my brake MC rubs on fairing

[Teflon-Mike]

Trundle up the A444, if you like, we can have a potter round Co-op or ASDA car-park... see where you are at, talk counter-leaning, that sort of stuff.
Slow speed, and awful lot of it is about using the throttle, and leaning the bike rather than turning the bars, and it feels counter-intuative... going slowly, you dont want to lean the bike becouse it feels like you cant hold it up, and opening the throttle to accelerate, to get the bike to generate g-force that will hold it up, feels all 'wrong'... but you can accelerate without going fast and use the force to hold the bike up while you lean it over to make it turn, so that you use less bar movement, and get less scrub, so the bike does turn rather than push the front... if that makes sense.
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[radicalrabit]

[Davie J]

Before my mod 1 I practised some manoeuvres in the Homebase carpark after the place closed.

The steel bollards at the end of the disabled bays are a perfect distance apart to slalom through. Big incentive not to hit any as well
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Kwak Z750R Black Edition
Marauder 125 K3 (Murdered by a Megane), Varadero 125 V7 (sold), Varadero Thou (Sold), CB500S (Sold).

[haroman666]

Some people may disagree, but I found riding my mountain bike has helped massively.
Probably not ideal for you to take up mountain biking as the expense and length of time for it to be of any effect is to high.
But I found that on the mountain bike, with dual crown forks, I just fucked about low speed doing turns on full lock, riding down kerbs for as long as I could and generally making use of balance and brake control.

Just do the same on the petrol-powered bike... See how many circles you can do on full lock... See how low you can lean on a u-turn. Just fuck about learning the bike.
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The mistresses: 2000 Honda CBR600f, 2000 Honda VTR1000

[The999Kid]

[andym]

I was told for my mod 1 use throttle as high as you want, don't bother about high rpm throttle, don't use a lot of clutch, only to control the throttle, keep your foot on the rear break to control the clutch/throttle.

Basically rev the engine as high as you want, but you should know when to hold back (engine sound), use the clutch as if it isn't your bike and keep your foot on that rear break.... practice lots with the slow control in car parks etc and you'll ace any mod 1

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

^^^Advice for a mod1 but flawed advice. If you had better control with your feet you'd be using them to type.
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[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

When it comes to slow manoeuvring it seems trailing the rear brake is one of those things where there's a marked lack of consensus amongst instructors. It's like ye fabled hendon shuffle (something I do 95% of the time, but don't really get why, because I don't actually buy the safety argument of it - and didn't it come out of norton commandos anyway, not to mention that a steep camber mitigates against it, as does a shorty riding a big beemer) - some insist on it, but increasingly many are almost insisting *against* it. Anyway - trailing the rear. Even though I've got virtually no experience, I've already encountered instructors who are stout advocates of it, and others who are very much agen it. Afaict, the former are old school - and probably also into the hendon dance as well. Me, personally, I want to be able to do the whole gamut - and practice both ways, i.e. clutching and trailing.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[barrkel]

[ElBandido]

[Teflon-Mike]

[barrkel]