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Manchester cops owned big time

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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 01:26 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Manchester cops owned big time Reply with quote

Profanity-free but slightly abrasive guy, who knows his rights and is not afraid to use them versus a very, very frustrated plod. Fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlwLDS-xKYE
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colin1
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PostPosted: 02:00 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unnecessarily arsey, but it does highlight the normal pattern for police is to know the law, play the authority figure, and get someone to incriminate themselves, failing that boss someone around and make vague illegal threats, escalate the situation and over react.

They are genuinely stumped when they realise they might not be able to proceed as normal.
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covent.gardens
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PostPosted: 02:07 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just reminds me of the multicultural experiment failure, tbh.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 02:08 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was laughing my arse off.

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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 08:06 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw this a few days ago. I think the guy was a complete fucking cock, choosing to be a gobby shite for no reason other than his own 'us and them' mindset regarding the police. They didn't cause the aggro. He did.

The reason they wanted to talk to him was because he was pulling some kind of handbrake turn stunt and they saw him do it. It's mentioned at the start of the clip.

What were the coppers supposed to do? Just let him carry on driving like a that until such a time when there's an injury or an actual law broken?

Nothing wrong with police having a sensible word with someone when required. It is their task to maintain law and order, after all. I mean, just because no laws are broken, it's still good to have a group of dedicated public servants who are willing to step in and keep the peace when there are mouthy dickheads like him around who push the acceptable limits of how to act (or drive in this case) in public.

He was clearly a total fucking arsehole. Police did nothing wrong.

I'm dead against all the actual gang-like things the police sometimes do. For example, many activists, including a well respected 60 year old couple - both of them university lecturers - were arrested in their homes and detained for the duration of the royal wedding (or some other major public event), just because they were known for doing peaceful public performances (acting, singing, etc) regarding their views, so there was a CHANCE they might do 'something' (something peaceful), and were therefore arrested. THAT is when the police are complete cunts. This video here, however, is just an example of an over-inflated police-hating ego who thinks he's a pillar of society for aggressively 'exercising his rights' at a totally unnecessary time.

Don't forget, without the police, society would be vile, animalistic and properly territorial, dog-eag-dog, the very bad side of anarchy.


Last edited by Lord Percy on 08:17 - 20 Apr 2013; edited 1 time in total
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bullying thug pigs totally owned. Thumbs Up Laughing Superb demonstration of a lawful citizen putting public servants in their place and reminding them who the boss is.

Now fuck off, you shabby shower of shit, and go catch some criminals.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

sa1988 wrote:
The reason they wanted to talk to him was because he was pulling some kind of handbrake turn stunt and they saw him do it.

Was he? Did they? Sounds like you've tried and convicted him based on hearsay.

If he had actually committed an offence, he could have been (and may very well be) prosecuted and convicted without a word having been said to him.

Or they could have required him to provide a breath sample, and refusing to do that does trigger the criteria for arrest. They didn't. Why not?


sa1988 wrote:
What were the coppers supposed to do? Just let him carry on driving like a that until such a time when there's an injury or an actual law broken?

Pretty much what they did do, I've got no problem with words of advice being issued where appropriate. Trying to issue orders with no legal force behind them, also actually fair enough: more fool anyone who doesn't know the law and follows them.

Fitting him up though, no: that was called in as "making off" when the guy hadn't been detained and was quite right that he was under no obligation to stay. At that point, it was game on.

What was the bloke "supposed" to do though? Soil himself, blubber, lie through his teeth and promise to be ever so good, meanwhile wishing he had the balls to say all the things that he actually said?

No, he showed the knowledge, courage and integrity to have it out and risk the consequences. And as he demonstrated, that can be a more successful strategy than complying and looking like an easy victim. My own road traffic interactions with the police have brought me to the same conclusion, although not admittedly to that extent. Very Happy

I believe that we need a few people like that to remind the police that their powers are strictly limited, and deal with sanctioning actual crimes, not - with a very few exceptions, as you noted - pre-crimes.

He was a complete nobber, of course he was. My kind of nobber though.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 10:13 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

sa1988 wrote:
Nothing wrong with police having a sensible word with someone when required. It is their task to maintain law and order, after all. I mean, just because no laws are broken..


You're contradicting yourself, if no laws are broken, then why is there a need for having a word? I avoid chuggers and survey type people, it is my choice nothing compels me to speak to them. Veiled threats are made to compel the person.

As said the bit where they are lying about him attempting to leave the scene...

Lastly have you seen the location in the video? Its two cars wide parking area, I would severely like to see what kind of stunt was pulled.


Quote:

Don't forget, without the police, society would be vile, animalistic and properly territorial, dog-eag-dog, the very bad side of anarchy.



And the proof of this is? Because they say so how convenient....


The beef here is ego, on both sides, ego of the git in the car doesn't matter, because he had no authority behind it. Ego of the cop matters because they break the law to cover up for them being wrong.


Consider his other video, where the cop is wrong (Iphone,ipod) he pretty much expresses my bad, sorry and thats the end of it.
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recman
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PostPosted: 10:48 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need a translation. Confused
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 11:04 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

He definitely has a criminal accent, surely that's enough to charge him??
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd lift the fucker just for that irritating voice...

He was probably driving like a cunt.

Am ah bean deetaaained.

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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpies wrote:

Consider his other video, where the cop is wrong (Iphone,ipod) he pretty much expresses my bad, sorry and thats the end of it.


This one?


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nowhere.elysium
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

sa1988 wrote:
For example, many activists, including a well respected 60 year old couple - both of them university lecturers - were arrested in their homes and detained for the duration of the royal wedding

I do hope this isn't a reference to Chris Knight.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
I'd lift the fucker just for that irritating voice...

Whit's that yeer sayin'? Ah dinnae ken whit yer oan aboot. Wink
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 17:57 - 20 Apr 2013; edited 1 time in total
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair counter-arguments from all. I just think the 'fuck da po-lice' mentality has extended beyond all necessary level. People choose to hate based on small examples like this, and conveniently for a moment forget the world of good the police are doing in most other circumstances.

Of course society would decay monstrously if there was no police force. Anyone who thinks otherwise is making the mistake of believing that their own pure, utopian, community-strong egalitarian mindset is matched by everyone else. Clearly not true. When my bike was stolen, it was the a street bobby who got it back. Otherwise it would still be in the garage it was halfway through being stashed in. Society turns a blind eye to criminal behaviour as it is. Even if people did start clubbing together to work as a community against crime, it would melt down into mob mentality with widely differing moral stances across the country. I dare say there'd be regular lynch mobs about. Not to mention all sorts of racial/gang/national/territorial/you-name-it violence. Hence we need policing. Sad as it is to admit, society would be pretty barbaric without a somehow-enforced legal system, methinks.

And of course it's quite fine to have a word even if no laws are broken. There's law, and there's order. The latter is sort of subjective, but there are plenty of things I could legally do that would warrant a stern speaking to about the nature of my actions.

Just my opinion. Maybe the police were in the wrong in that situation? At least we all seem to agree that the guy was a bit of a mouther.


Last edited by Lord Percy on 17:59 - 20 Apr 2013; edited 1 time in total
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Walloper wrote:
I'd lift the fucker just for that irritating voice...

Whit's that yeer sayin'? Ah dinnae ken whit yer oan aboot. Wink



Fcuk aff you... Embarassed
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

sa1988 wrote:
People choose to hate based on small examples like this

Why do you imagine this chap chose to adopt that attitude right off the bat?

Because he's been treated fairly and with courtesy and respect in previous interactions with the police? Thinking


sa1988 wrote:
Maybe the police were in the wrong in that situation?

They were quite right, up to the point where they chose to try to fit him up, and then they chose to escalate the situation.

They backed down eventually because the chap was right from the outset, and they were wrong. Why did it take them so long to acknowledge that? And, as he noted, what actual crimes did they miss while they were attempting to intimidate him into compliance?

That was piss poor policing, entirely driven by fragile egos that couldn't stomach being challenged. Every single one of those warranted constables should be ashamed of not being the one to say "No crime is being committed here, I'm off to do something useful."
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

sa1988 wrote:
Fair counter-arguments from all. I just think the 'fuck da po-lice' mentality has extended beyond all necessary level. People choose to hate based on small examples like this, and conveniently for a moment forget the world of good the police are doing in most other circumstances.

Of course society would decay monstrously if there was no police force. Anyone who thinks otherwise is making the mistake of believing that their own pure, utopian, community-strong egalitarian mindset is matched by everyone else. Clearly not true. When my bike was stolen, it was the a street bobby who got it back. Otherwise it would still be in the garage it was halfway through being stashed in. Society turns a blind eye to criminal behaviour as it is. Even if people did start clubbing together to work as a community against crime, it would melt down into mob mentality with widely differing moral stances across the country. I dare say there'd be regular lynch mobs about. Not to mention all sorts of racial/gang/national/territorial/you-name-it violence. Hence we need policing. Sad as it is to admit, society would be pretty barbaric without a somehow-enforced legal system, methinks.

And of course it's quite fine to have a word even if no laws are broken. There's law, and there's order. The latter is sort of subjective, but there are plenty of things I could legally do that would warrant a stern speaking to about the nature of my actions.

Just my opinion. Maybe the police were in the wrong in that situation? At least we all seem to agree that the guy was a bit of a mouther.


You seem, somehow, to have turned a point against criminal policing into an idea that some of us would like tro see the police disbanded?

Few people would argue against a need for a police force; far far fewer would agree that the police are fit for purpose, either in terms of doing an effective job against crime or not behaving like psychotic scum on an alarmingly regular basis. It has been some decades since they turned from being public servants into what practically amounts to an army of occupation. They are bullies, thugs, liars, cheats and cowards who think they can treat the general public like scum.

That's why they are, in general, loathed and despised.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

MY argument 'for' the police really just a direct reply to this from fatpies:

Quote:

Quote:


Don't forget, without the police, society would be vile, animalistic and properly territorial, dog-eag-dog, the very bad side of anarchy.



And the proof of this is? Because they say so how convenient....


Everything else is just an opinion. I guess I've just not had enough brushes with the law to have any real distaste for them. These examples are all good and well, but I'm certain the bitter sentiment is mostly second-hand-anecdotal. One person's bad experience becomes a hundred peoples' hatred. Like usual, bad praise spreads a lot faster than good praise. I prefer to see them as human beings before I see them as one giant collective 'cunt' - seems to be that this description is applied liberally before any consideration for the individuals under the uniform has been made.

I kind of do get all the well-made points though. It's true they should have buggered off from that scene in the video a long time sooner. And it's true they also exacerbate their own 'us and them' scenario. I just don't like the immediate uber-hatred that seems to be banded about, which, as I said, is largely just second-hand opinions, because on the whole it is much cooler to despise the police even if you personally have never had a bad run-in with them.

I don't know the word for it, but it's the same as racism - 'Oh they look like that certain group of individuals who I've chosen to indiscriminately hate, and therefore I hate them indiscriminately'. Although I guess there's mounting evidence for the police being racist too, what with their 'random-but-mostly-targeted-at-black-people' searches Laughing.

Sheesh. Humans!

Edit: Remembered the word Rolling Eyes Prejudice!


Last edited by Lord Percy on 07:45 - 21 Apr 2013; edited 1 time in total
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Saltire
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PostPosted: 23:04 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bet me to it OP.

The thing is the police might have it on camera (do UK police cars have a dash camera?). If they do, then he may be fucked. If you commit an offence that they can prove via video they are just going to send you a letter to notify you of any points on your license instead of telling you in person.

Probably why the black officer had a CCTV camera, to prove it was him driving the car if he disputed being the one driving it that day.
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Nick__C
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PostPosted: 01:08 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watched this and thought the guy was a bit of a nobber but fair play to him Thumbs Up

"Am I being detained"
"no"
*leaves*
"MAKING OFF!"

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andym
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PostPosted: 06:54 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

He seemed like a bit of a cock to be honest, OK so I didn't watch the whole thing, but I just don't understand the mentallity sometimes, I thought the police had the power to stop and question people for little reason.

I've been stopped in the past for someone in the car in front throwing a fag end out the window... I've been stitched up by the police... I've called them because of some scrotes ragging the arse off a stolen car at 3am (I had to be up at 7).... I just don't see the point in getting all defensive.

I noticed the video was almost 10 minutes, I imagine if he just let them get on with it he'd have been gone in less than half that
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 07:07 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

andym wrote:


I noticed the video was almost 10 minutes, I imagine if he just let them get on with it he'd have been gone in less than half that


Get on with it?

As in how? Be made to admit to a crime he didn't do?

Be harrassed?

Even recieve a beating?

There are a number of Muslim blokes on youtube who record encounters with police, one of them to be fair does seem to be a lot of a dick. But in regards to the law he is right.

The spend 10 minutes trying to get him out of his van, the moment he gets out of the van, the first thing the cops shout is stop resisting arrest. The cop grabs the camera and stops it straight away.

I can pretty much infer he got a beating from the police.

I don't know about you but I tend to want to avoid false accusations and beatings.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

AsphaltAddict46 wrote:
the black officer

The what? You mean the Plastic Plod / Community Warden / other flavour of jumped up park keeper?

Andy, the police actually have very few "powers" that you or I don't have. Rather, there are a few "duties" that we have which become offences if we don't comply.

It's an offence to not stop when instructed to do so by a constable in uniform (plus a few other park keeper types). Stop, nothing else. Not turn off the engine, not remove the key, open the door or window, or get out.

It's an offence to not produce your license (and CBT if necessary), certificate of insurance, or to state your date of birth, your name and address and the name and address of the owner of the vehicle, if asked. However, if the copper just persists in telling you to get out of the car or wind the window down (so he can steal the keys) then that's his choice.

It's also an offence to not provide a sample or perform an "impairment test" for a copper who has formed a reasonable belief that you're drunk or tripping, or (significantly) if you've committed a moving traffic offence, and it's explicitly arrestable without a warrant if you refuse. That would have been the way to get him out of the car if they were accusing him of an offence.

That's it. There is no offence committed by refusing to answer any other question or telling them to hop it. It's rude, it's possibly counter-productive, but it's not an offence and it doesn't warrant bawwwing for assistance and detaining him without cause.

The one point where I believe the chap was wrong is that (I think) he showed his license through the window, and IIRC English case law is that this is insufficient and it has to be handed over for inspection. However, his defence is to turn up at a cop shop within 7 days and show it there.
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