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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: As we've isolated the gene... Reply with quote

...isn't it time we applied our new knowledge to the millenia-old cause of all that ails the world? By stopping sociopaths from gaining positions of power, influence and authority? No more sociopathic politicians, CEOs, police officers, etc etc etc. Time to lower the bar on these sub-human filth and eradicate them from positions of power. They've been making this experience a shithouse for thousands of years, time to put an end to it.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sound like you've just read the book forever peace...

The 'undesirables' too were 'removed'

TBH I think you should just educate people better, i.e. learn how to spot them and question things a a lot more.

Still the current education system isn't up for this as its just a brain washing process to indoctrinate people to be consumers and slaves (in semi gilded cages).
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://i.imgur.com/62V1fh9.jpg
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpies wrote:
You sound like you've just read the book forever peace...

The 'undesirables' too were 'removed'


A quality read Very Happy
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetz, even if this was possible or desirable, then who do you think would control and administer this program?

All this tech is in the hands of large corporate and government agencies. I'd expect them to announce such a program, ie "We're eliminating the criminal class, and all those genetically predisposed to crime. All the serial killers and mass murderers will disappear in a generation or two. Isn't that great for our future utopia?" Then, as is usual in this black is white, up is down world, expect them to do the most horrible shit you can imagine in their usual program of subjugation and control, and destruction of anything that smacks of being creative or good, and anything to make more future $$$ and a bigger %age of the pie.

We can't trust the fuckers with the powers and abilities they have at the moment. I'm fucked if they should have any more, no matter how it gets sold.
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Benno
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Re: As we've isolated the gene... Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
...isn't it time we applied our new knowledge to the millenia-old cause of all that ails the world? By stopping sociopaths from gaining positions of power, influence and authority? No more sociopathic politicians, CEOs, police officers, etc etc etc. Time to lower the bar on these sub-human filth and eradicate them from positions of power. They've been making this experience a shithouse for thousands of years, time to put an end to it.


OK, let's do that.

-Let's also remove unproductive persons
-Let's also remove persons who may bear unpredictable personalities
-Let's also remove persons who may have the ability to think critically rather than simply buying our products or may oppose the power institutions
-Let's remove persons with natural technical talents so they cannot fabricate their own goods and have to buy ours, and additionally so they cannot manufacture weapons to use against us


If this happens who do you think will be in control of it? The people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blpe_sGnnP4


No, the government and the megacorporations will control it. And they are in each other's pockets. The global system most closely resembles fascism, don't you know.

So for our own good we'd better not let them use this power!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want powerful sociopaths to legislate banning sociopaths from power?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 20 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except it wouldn't be the sociopaths that get convicted of being sociopaths, it would be people like Hetzer, and anyone else with an "incorrect" opinion. What's the chances of Hetzer being on a "possible terrorist" list somewhere, even though he is very unlikely to actually be a terrorist?
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fox
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PostPosted: 01:14 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

would everyone stand in line like a good citizen? would the politics for the country take a natural fold?
As much as I would like to agree with you, I think the world world would turn to shit regardless. It's human nature unfortunately
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree it would probably be the thin end of the wedge. Genetic screening at birth. But why not? If the decent people could get a grip on the reins of power it could turn this reality around.

But maybe it's meant to be a shithole, I do consider that possibility. Maybe turning it into an utopia would be akin to lawning an assault-course.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
I agree it would probably be the thin end of the wedge. Genetic screening at birth. But why not? If the decent people could get a grip on the reins of power it could turn this reality around.

But maybe it's meant to be a shithole, I do consider that possibility. Maybe turning it into an utopia would be akin to lawning an assault-course.


If being a sociopath is such a bad trait then why would sociopaths rise to the top so often? Life is all about selfishness on the genetic level, it's unsurprising that there's a benefit to it on the larger scale.

I think you are right about life requiring hardship. Our brains seem set up for adversity. Without it we become depressed and anxious.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do they rise to the top? Serious question? Because they're prepared to stab everyone else in the back. Decent people are not.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
If being a sociopath is such a bad trait then why would sociopaths rise to the top so often? Life is all about selfishness on the genetic level, it's unsurprising that there's a benefit to it on the larger scale.

There's a personal benefit. Heck, if I could have the sociopathy gene grafted in, I'd take it tomorrow.result in benefits to those who are subj

But what doesn't follow is that those who seize power then wield it for the benefit of others. Indeed, it often seems that quite the opposite occurs.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
daemonoid wrote:
If being a sociopath is such a bad trait then why would sociopaths rise to the top so often? Life is all about selfishness on the genetic level, it's unsurprising that there's a benefit to it on the larger scale.

There's a personal benefit. Heck, if I could have the sociopathy gene grafted in, I'd take it tomorrow.result in benefits to those who are subj

But what doesn't follow is that those who seize power then wield it for the benefit of others. Indeed, it often seems that quite the opposite occurs.


If you had the gene grafted in you'd enjoy no real benefits. Unless you believe feeling nothing is a benefit?
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Except it wouldn't be the sociopaths that get convicted of being sociopaths, it would be people like Hetzer, and anyone else with an "incorrect" opinion. What's the chances of Hetzer being on a "possible terrorist" list somewhere, even though he is very unlikely to actually be a terrorist?


Have you just called Hetzybabes a Keyboard Warrior?
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keggyhander
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ban religion first, then we can go from there.
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Knightsy
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

keggyhander wrote:
Ban religion first, then we can go from there.


I think it's just easier to go with child screening idea...
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
Why do they rise to the top? Serious question? Because they're prepared to stab everyone else in the back. Decent people are not.


'Decent' is just what you have decided is a good 'moral' idea. There's not natural definition of 'decent' that doesn't rely on a particular context of the society in which it is generated.

Perhaps non-sociopaths are an evolutionary deadend? Perhaps society benefits from a mix? There are also many other genes we'd want rid of, you are likely have one or two of them Hetz...

And of course, having a particular gene does not guarantee that you will display that trait. Environmental factors always have an influence...
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
? Perhaps society benefits from a mix? There are also many other genes we'd want rid of, you are likely have one or two of them Hetz...


Most human traits are good in some scenarios and bad in others. Probably why there is a good mix even today.

Caring, considerate people are great for helping members of the tribe in peacetime and raising children etc, but not much good in times of strife. When shits getting real, a bunch of unfeeling brutes who will quite happily slaughter the resource-competing neighboring tribes entirely without hesitation are pretty useful people to have around.

Sometimes you just need a nutjob to bayonet charge a machinegun nest. Other times you need people to look after the sick, old and young. Both things need vastly different personal skills and qualities, finding a person who could effectively do both would be rare.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
Hetzer wrote:
Why do they rise to the top? Serious question? Because they're prepared to stab everyone else in the back. Decent people are not.


'Decent' is just what you have decided is a good 'moral' idea. There's not natural definition of 'decent' that doesn't rely on a particular context of the society in which it is generated.

Perhaps non-sociopaths are an evolutionary deadend? Perhaps society benefits from a mix? There are also many other genes we'd want rid of, you are likely have one or two of them Hetz...

And of course, having a particular gene does not guarantee that you will display that trait. Environmental factors always have an influence...


There may not be a 'natural definition' but I'd argue there most certainly is a rational one with which any rational entity would agree. "That which causes no active harm". Sure, now we'd have to define "active harm", but we're leagues closer to our goal already.

I suspect society does benefit from a mix; we just need to ensure the sociopaths are stopped short of getting into positions of power and utterly corrupting that mix with their vile behaviour.

I'd also agree that in an ideal society my genes would be best eliminated. But it happens that in the current model they've prevented me from becoming a slave and victim of this bullshit. I'll surrender my guns when everyone else is gunless too, kind of thing.

Environmental factors yes...nice upbringing equals politician filth instead of serial-killer filth. There's only so much can be done with a sociopath, no matter how much love it gets.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
Sometimes you just need a nutjob to bayonet charge a machinegun nest. Other times you need people to look after the sick, old and young. Both things need vastly different personal skills and qualities, finding a person who could effectively do both would be rare.


Sociopaths could easily do both, just don't expect them to keep doing it if it isn't in their best interest.

People often confuse sociopath and psychopath or think that one is a lesser version of the other. They're quite different, a sociopath is a very good manipulator and can disguise themselves well, they tend to have plenty of relationships and are often admired in their social/professional circles.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely you can train to be a sociopath to a degree if that's what you wanted to do?

While some things come naturally to some people, lots of things, persuasion, manipulation , public speaking etc are very much skills that can be acquired from practice and effort.

I've often though about learning manipulation and suggestion, but I'm not sure that I'd trust myself not to abuse those skills.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sometimes wonder if there are different species of consciousness. It would explain a great deal.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:

Life is all about selfishness on the genetic level,



Disagree. We as a species didn't evolve through bog-standard animal selfishness. We evolved because we had a group mentality and looked out for one another for better chances of survival. Life is about community on a survival level. Life is all about selfishness on a cultural level. In some places their social systems are vastly different and innately unselfish.

daemonoid wrote:

I think you are right about life requiring hardship. Our brains seem set up for adversity. Without it we become depressed and anxious.


Agree. With everything provided for us, it makes everything seem utterly pointless. This is the issue. Everything actually is provided for us. Life is a million times easier than it ever has been. All necessities are accessible and streamlined. But.... we're still required to put in a full working day to have all these things? Makes no sense! I thought the idea of evolution was to aim for making life easier?! In several thousand years, has this not happened yet?

--------------------

I adamantly believe society could function with a fraction of the human input. Farms are so mechanised and large-scale. Water is available without needing to go to a river or well every day. We have energy being provided by a handful of power stations. etc etc. All the true necessities could be run and maintained on rotation by probably about 25% of the population. However these days we seem to be required to work more?!
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 21 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and more in line with the OP... The last person to have such visions was Pol Pot. He didn't do too well implementing it Laughing

Let's be realistic. Society absolutely WILL NOT change through any level of intelligent thought or sideline moaning. We're just gonna have to wait for something massive. My bet is on it being when oil runs out. If it's a quick transition, there'll be turmoil. If it's a slow transition, society may stay at peace but a lot of things will change, as alternative energies begin to rise and communities may be able to sustain themselves again without relying on the bastard corporate giants of the world.

Meh, I dunno. We're due a revolution sooner or later. I do hope I live to see one. A stagnant global society is a boring one. I'm not inviting war. Just change.
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