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| 2stoke or 4stroke |
| 2 stoke |
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37% |
[ 15 ] |
| 4 stoke |
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62% |
[ 25 ] |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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| Author |
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| DJ_Dan23 |
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DJ_Dan23
Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 22 Apr 2013
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 Posted: 12:40 - 27 Apr 2013  Post subject: 2 stoke or 4 stroke 125cc |
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well im gonna be buying my first bike soon and well i want it to quite fast (75mph+) and im wondering weather to get a 2 stoke or 4 stroke. i realise that a 2 stroke requires work on it but a 4 stoke does't have the speed. so i'm just wondering what your take on this.
i need it to be doing 20 miles a day so want good mileage on it thanks!   |
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| Sable |
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Sable
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| Posted: 12:46 - 27 Apr 2013 Post subject: |
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Thats barely a question. 
At a push a 4 stroke might hit 70'ish. A Vara or modern sports 4 stroke might get to 75/80 with you chin pinned to the tank ragging the absolute bollock off of it.
2 stroke sporty will manage it 'if its derestriced'. In that case, your breaking the law, may as well pay to do your test and get a bigger bike. Will cost less than blowing up a 125 trying to maintain them speeds every day. |
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| DJ_Dan23 |
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DJ_Dan23
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| Musketeer |
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Musketeer
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| bikertomm |
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bikertomm
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| Posted: 13:38 - 27 Apr 2013 Post subject: |
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You've answered your own question,
you don't get a 'fast' 125 4 stroke.
If you don't mind looking after it then perfect, 2 stroke you are
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| anthony_r6 |
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anthony_r6
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| Linux |
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Linux
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Joined: 11 Apr 2013
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Posted: 16:13 - 27 Apr 2013  Post subject: |
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4 stroke scooter will eat up those 20 miles, I promised myself, no matter how much I wanted that extra 10mph top speed, I'd never invest in a 2t again.
Go with the 4t, know you're not going to have to buy oil on the weekend, or clean the carb next Tuesday, or wake up 5 minutes earlier so you have time to start it in the morning.
IF looked after with all the TLC you can find, a 2t will do just fine, I've had plenty, spent many an hour sorting them out, but nothing compared how little I had to maintain the 4t 125's I've owned, decent oil, regular changes, and they just kept on working.
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Last edited by Linux on 16:14 - 27 Apr 2013; edited 1 time in total |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 16:13 - 27 Apr 2013  Post subject: |
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Maximum Speed limit in this country is 70.
Any 125 that can better 75mph wont be A1/Learner-Legal
Barely a handful of 4T 125's can even reach 70 and hold it.
Any two-stroke 125 that can hit 70 and hold it, wont last long pressed to do it regularly, every day, day in day out, without a lot of maintenence.
See link to New Rider Info in sig line.
NO 125 Learner-Legal ios fast, and fast is not what you should be looking for in a 125. And if you think you know better.... they you would not be asking silly questions here, and would have a full licence and not be looking at 125's for job suggested.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
nimbA
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| Posted: 18:25 - 27 Apr 2013 Post subject: |
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As a sole vehicle on Learner plates? 4 stroke.
Save the 2 stroke larks for a 2nd bike when you're licensed up.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| DJ_Dan23 |
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DJ_Dan23
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| Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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Clutchy
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| tom720 |
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tom720
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| Posted: 05:27 - 29 Apr 2013 Post subject: |
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Yeah, if it mainly commuting your planning to use it for, get a cheap 4 stroke man. Also as it is your first bike, your probs gonna enjoy any bike you have, the first time your on the ride by yourself, no matter the vehicle, you'll have a good laugh. No much need for looks etc.
I have a rs125, and as much as i love it there is always a constant 'negative' thought in my mind lmao, very rarely have i gone out on it without worrying about something Plus 2stroke are not always the most friendly learner bikes.
If you wanna learn about maintenance, they are a very good place to start, but gets a bit tedious after a while. |
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| BG5067 |
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BG5067
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| Sako |
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Sako
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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| Posted: 09:49 - 29 Apr 2013 Post subject: |
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| DJ_Dan23 wrote: | what sort mileage per tank are u getting with a 4stroke |
 We are in to the Random muses, ent we!
OK... well, 'Range', how far you might travel on a single tank-full of fuel, or to "reserve tank*" some-times quoted in the bike-specs; if not, multiply the tank capacity by the average mpg!
Ball-Park MPG for a four-stroke 125? Anything from about 70mpg to 120mpg. Tank capacity, anything from about 1 gallon to perhaps 3 1/2 Gallons.
Dirt-Bikes tend to have the smallest tanks; I think the Suzuki Van-Van is only just over a gallon, but has pretty good mpg, around the 100mark, so you get about 90 miles to reserve tank.
CBF125 is reputedly the most frugal 125 at the moment, it's little fuel injected engine often returning about 110mpg. It's tank is 13l, a tad under 3-gallons; so you'd get about 300miles before something told you to top it up. (That one dont have a reserve tank, being fuel injected - would expect it to have a low fuel warning lamp come on at about 250-300 miles)
HOWEVER...... mpg is an expression of power. Power is 'Rate of Change of Energy'. Fuel is energy, mpg a rate you burn it turning it into miles travelled, so mpg is a measure of power used.
The figure quoted for engine power is the maximum power an engine may have; the fastest rate it can turn petrol into miles covered, and you only get that much power at peak power revs, with the throttle wide open... at part throttle, or at higher or lower revs, engine is making less power hence burning less fuel.
MPG is almost directly proportional then to how far you open the throttle, and can vary HUGELY depending on how you ride the bike.
Rag the arse off the thing every where, you get a damn site less; ginger it every where, you'll like get a chunk more.
I have a VF1000, a bike with one of the worst ever 'quoted' mpg numbers. Book says it does 35mpg 'Average', which on average, over all kinds of riding wasn't far off. BUT, I could spend a day in the saddle, sight seeing; five and a half gallon tank, I could get maybe 300-350 miles before the fuel warning lamp came on. Treated gently, I could get about 70mpg from it, double what the book said, and about as good as a 'poor' 125... from a bike with over 100bhp! Conversely, get the devil in me and start bashing by-passes, opening it up between round-abouts..... consumption could drop almost into single figures! Half what the book suggested.
As a Newby.... Forget it. Its academic interest only.
As a Newb, you will start out, pretty tender on the throttle; getting a feel for the bike, probably doing a lot of round the houses work, in sub 30mph zones. Your mpg is likely to be quite low during this phase, for simple reason that engine will be running either at idle, or on very low-load, for quite a lot of time, without you actually going anywhere... or not going any where very fast.
Then likely to pick up, as you pick up confidence and a bit of speed, and you spend less time hesitating at junctions, or worrying about roundabouts and things, and start making what your instructor would call 'good progress', but slowly.
Then likely to start to drop off again, as you gain yet more confidence and start thrashing the bike more, going a bit faster still, but also being a bit reactive, accelerating hard and braking hard...
Then picking up a bit as you get better at it, and start getting smoother and more predictive, and it all starts coming together and you pull away smoothly, and don't brake so much for corners and junctions and learn to keep the bike moving well, 'making progress'...
Then drop off again.... as you start getting a bit blase, and bored and ragging the arse off the thing, ever where you go!
Ie.... the mpg will go up and down as you learn to ride.
AND... any calculations or predictions on running costs are likely to go completely out the window, at the first 'un-planned incident'.... this is the definition of an 'accident'... but that doesn't necessarily mean 'crash'. Can be anything from fumbling the bike out of a parking space, to riding through a hedge!
Gallon of petrol. 4.5l @ £1.40 per litre? £6.30 per gallon. Litre of fuel is what, three cans of pop. Lay the bike down, like say you have done an e-stop, and fumbled your footing plonking your boot a bit early, so bikes gone forwards a foot after you have propped, so off-balanced you, and the bars have turned... its a not untypical newby blunder.... motorbikes aren't designed to run on their side, and laying horezontally, petrol is likely to leak out of either and or, the petrol tank breather vent... (hole that lets air into the tank as fuel flows out) or the carburettor over-flow vent. 30 seconds? You might loose, 150-300ml of petrol? Just pored straight on the floor. There's 40p's worth of petrol lost, and your MPG calculations screwed.
And if you're lucky, you'll laugh, pick the bike up, no other damage, laugh about it, and ride off, chalking it up to 'experience'... another bit of learning done.
If you are a little less lucky; you may have broken the clutch lever end.... easy fix; a new lever and five minutes with a scre-driver to fit it.... BUT..... £10 a pair, thats £5 worth of un-anticipated maintenence, or almost another gallon of fuel's worth you never accounted for in your predictions.
20 miles a day, five days a week, fifty weeks of the year, and lets say on a 125 that returns an 'average' 80mpg ish.... that's 5,ooo miles. And a rough annual fuel cost of, just under £400.
On most bikes, certainly larger ones, the annual fuel bill, is often the single biggest cost of running a bike; often more than the buy price of the bike, usually bigger than the insurance, and certainly more than maintenence and repairs. BUT, on a Learner-Legal, with these kinds of high end MPG's, and limited performance discouraging higher mileages, they tend to buck the trend, and fuel costs, especially as they are 'pay as you go', five or ten quid here and there, ALMOST not worth worrying about.
Certainly on my old VF, it was something to be aware of; getting to and from work every day, 15 miles to and 15 miles back it was; kaning it, I could burn two gallons of juice a day, and I had a lovely road begging for it between home and office! Difference between thrashing it, or gingering it, was +/- £1000 a year, either side of a nominal £1500 a year, or £30 a week!
Not on a 125..... you are looking at less than £10 a week in petrol, and variance of about £2 either way.
And extra journeys, are likely to add more miles and more to your fuel bill, than difference in mpg between riding styles or different bikes.
Bottom line is.... when we have cash in our pockets we dont worry about it; and just ride and dont count costs, when we dont, we do, and we eek it out or dont ride! We ride to what cash we have!
And there will be MUCH bigger fish to fry in your budgeting......
While how often you will have to fill up, isn't all that important. Even a tiny-Tank Van van, ought only need filling once a week or so, and most 125's on that sort of mileage, will probably run, fortnight or more on a fill-up.
See comment below about reserve tank; actually sometimes annoying on the tiddlers that they need fuel so seldom.... can easily forget at what mileage you last put any in, to help guestimate what range you have left!
SO... have you had a look at the link?
FAQ's All the things you might ask.
Recommend Me a Learner-Bike!
All the advice to answer random Q's is pretty much there, to answer them before you ask, if you go look.
*Traditionally Motorbikes don't have fuel-Gauges. You judge how much petrol is in the tank by having a look through the filler; giving the tank a shake between your knees and listening to it slosh around & feeling the weight move; estimate by the mileage since last fill on the odometer; and OR, the last back-up.... when the engine starts to stutter from fuel starvation... ie-runs out of petrol.... having a 'reserve-tank' position on the fuel tap, and you switch-over from main to reserve. It's the same tank; just two take off points, one higher than the other, so that on 'main' it drains the top 4/5ths of the tank, then 'reserve' the last 1/5th from the bottom. Trick of it is to remember, WHEN you have switched to ;Res' to switch it BACK to main when you fill up..... OR.... you carry on riding around, draining from the reserve tap, and the bike wont stutter until it's drained the whole tank! WE HAVE ALL DONE IT! Another good reason for learning on lightweight 125's.... they are a dang site easier to push a mile down a dark, rain drenched road to a petrol station!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Irn-Bru |
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Irn-Bru
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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| Posted: 10:15 - 29 Apr 2013 Post subject: |
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| Irn-Bru wrote: | 2smoker, get a dtr/dtx or something if it's for commuting they go ages before needing a rebuild. |
Except that the former owner is likely to have done all them miles, and be flogging it on because it is long past due that rebuild!
I love the two-smokes, and the old DT lump is one of the best. Full power at about 22bhp, it was never one of the most raucously tuned two-smokes, and hence had the potential to be relatively reliable....
Until 'kiddy-go-kwik' got their hands on them!
At which point they were ragged the arse every where, and suffered from dire attempts at 'de-restriction' that as often as not resulted in a lot of noise, and not a lot of extra 'go' until bits of piston came shooting out the exhaust pipe, while the rings gauged ruddy great scores in the bore!
If not dicked with, though they would run well for a long while; BUT, they are not maintenence free, and signs of small end failure would often go un-noticed, and they would only get the top pulled off and a 'top-end' rebuild, with new piston, gudgeon and needle-roller, when they really needed the bottom end pulling and the mains replaced on the pressed up crank. And low rent rebuild by inexperienced owners, often made more problems than they solved.
And getting long in the tooth now; chances of finding a good one are not great.
Meanwhile; small petrol tank (about a gallon and a half ISTR); high (for a 125) fuel consumption... my air-cooled model had a book average of 60mpg! to which you have to add £10 per litre of good two stroke oil for every 50litre of petrol... increasing the 'fuel-price', rather.
They are also in one of the highest insurance groups for any 125, and loaded beyond many more, because they are such a favourite for the Twokkers; making them even more expensive to run, and big risk to leave parked!
I bought mine as week-end, round-town, & off-road fun bike. But NOT cheap to run. VERY not cheap to run. Not as excessive perhaps as a raucously tuned Mito or RS... and within the realms of possibility as an every day machine; but NOT cheap. Fuel and insurance and were both as expensive or more than running my 750! Only thing I might have saved on was tyres!
As standard, they are also speed governed at 65mph. Restriction is often removed, but it's there for a reason. It's a short tall bike and not very stable at speed, more so on block-tread off-road tyres. Rather damps the idea that they are 'quick' a little.
Without knocking them, they ARE good bikes; but they are very hard, and getting harder to reccomend to a Newby, especially a newby that needs every day, reliable, ecconomical commuter transport.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Shinigami |
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Shinigami
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| Posted: 10:58 - 29 Apr 2013 Post subject: |
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I managed to get my cityfly to 75mph once.....only once.....
...downhill...with no wind 
____________________
Current: Honda City Fly CLR125 2003 Honda CB600F Hornet 2008 Yamaha FZ6 S2 + 1991 Kawasaki GPZ500
"Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense. |
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| BG5067 |
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BG5067
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| Shinigami |
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Shinigami
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| BG5067 |
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BG5067
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| DJ_Dan23 |
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DJ_Dan23
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Posted: 17:54 - 29 Apr 2013  Post subject: |
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cheers Teflon-Mike that really helped |
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| moonzoomer |
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moonzoomer
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| Ste |
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Ste
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 61 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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