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Rearward facing average speed cameras - M25

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c_dug
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PostPosted: 16:41 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Rearward facing average speed cameras - M25 Reply with quote
Hi All,

Went to Chessington World of Adventures yesterday because I'm cool. I went around the M25 instead of going straight through London to avoid the worst of the rush hour traffic. Between junctions 5-7 (maybe 6-8?) there are roadworks going on and a couple of miles into them I noticed the cameras are almost entirely rearward facing, with maybe 1 in 6 forward facing.

So firstly heads up, they are putting them the other way now so keep an eye out.

Secondly, I have no idea how many I went through before I noticed they were facing my plate. Anybody have any idea how many sets of cameras they use for the averaging? Quite nervous, I'm on 6 points and could potentially have been clocked at 80 or so so would be facing a totting up ban.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I never heard anything back from them so fingers crossed you don't either. Thumbs Up
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iooi
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Re: Rearward facing average speed cameras - M25 Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
Anybody have any idea how many sets of cameras they use for the averaging? .


Start & end Thumbs Up

So 2 Embarassed
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ha-bloody-ha Razz

What I mean is I don't know if they need to get you at an average over, say, 4 cameras or whether just two is enough.

I was hoping/guessing that the forward facing cameras were the beginning/ends of the sets or something.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
Ha-bloody-ha Razz

What I mean is I don't know if they need to get you at an average over, say, 4 cameras or whether just two is enough.

I was hoping/guessing that the forward facing cameras were the beginning/ends of the sets or something.


Simply the time/speed between a minimum of any two cameras.
They are not easy to fool. Unless if you have been over the allowed speed you stop or crawl between two cameras to increase your time in the zone. But you won't be a popular bunny with other road users.
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drive to work along there everyday, started off obeying... until the motorway was empty and displayed '40'


Someone I know speeds through every single one of them, and has even been flashed once but the bloke never heard anything of it.

He also discovered this:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9740880/M25-not-a-single-motorist-caught-by-speed-cameras-in-a-year.html


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c_dug
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
bikertomm wrote:
stuff


Think you're on about the variable ones rather than the temporary average ones in the roadworks.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
bikertomm wrote:
stuff


Think you're on about the variable ones rather than the temporary average ones in the roadworks.



This ^^^
The ones at roadworks are normally enforced.
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fox
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
A little off topic, but what are the chances of these becoming common place on our motorways? I hate those things with a vengeance.
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Easter Bunny
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PostPosted: 09:12 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have never heard from any of the overhead gantry cameras on either the M25 or M1 jct 12-9 and I use them all the time, it will be a sorry day if they switch them on Crying or Very sad

Seen the M25 ones flash occasionally thou when coming the other way Confused
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
fox_uk wrote:
A little off topic, but what are the chances of these becoming common place on our motorways? I hate those things with a vengeance.


They're on the A/M77 in West of Scotland.
Been on the A77 for about 10 years.
All are rear facing so bikes are rear`exempt`.
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Benno
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
fox_uk wrote:
A little off topic, but what are the chances of these becoming common place on our motorways? I hate those things with a vengeance.


Driven past Bristol recently?

"UPGRADING TO MANAGED MOTORWAYS. EXPECT DELAYS UNTIL 2015"

And then in small print below it

"BIG BROTHER IS HERE TO HELP YOU CITIZENS"

To me this "managed motorways" bullshit literally only means they are putting in ways to track traffic/vehicles, in other words monitor your speed along the whole length of the motorway.
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Charlie
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
They do seem to be quite good at keeping the motorway flowing though. Not an issue for bikers as such but good for everyone else. On busy sections of motorway I think it's worth it.

Would be nice if they'd fine people who don't drive on the motorway correctly and just sit in the middle lane. Bet it wouldn't be to hard to implement alongside average speed cameras.
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fox
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Benno wrote:
fox_uk wrote:
A little off topic, but what are the chances of these becoming common place on our motorways? I hate those things with a vengeance.


Driven past Bristol recently?

"UPGRADING TO MANAGED MOTORWAYS. EXPECT DELAYS UNTIL 2015"

And then in small print below it

"BIG BROTHER IS HERE TO HELP YOU CITIZENS"

To me this "managed motorways" bullshit literally only means they are putting in ways to track traffic/vehicles, in other words monitor your speed along the whole length of the motorway.


As it happens I went past on the m4 last weekend! Didn't think much of it as it was 'roadworks'. 2015 takes the piddle though. I'm sure glad I won't be traversing that stretch often.
The main road from London to South End has them permanently, but front facing means Middle Finger from me as I 'amble' on through Laughing
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yup A13 and A127 are both roads I use often and are both front facing which is why when I saw the "Average Speed Cameras" sign I carried on at my original speed. Didn't even pay attention to the cameras until a mile or two in when I spotted they were rear facing.
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I despise cams because theres no imperative need to keep everyone at a tame 70 all day, iv regularly driven at triple figures where possible and not had an accident - wheres the issue?

Why does some powertrip safety nazi get to determine what speed im safe at?

Glyn had the best idea.
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Benno wrote:
fox_uk wrote:
A little off topic, but what are the chances of these becoming common place on our motorways? I hate those things with a vengeance.


Driven past Bristol recently?

"UPGRADING TO MANAGED MOTORWAYS. EXPECT DELAYS UNTIL 2015"

And then in small print below it

"BIG BROTHER IS HERE TO HELP YOU CITIZENS"

To me this "managed motorways" bullshit literally only means they are putting in ways to track traffic/vehicles, in other words monitor your speed along the whole length of the motorway.

I live in Bristol and as such see these very regularly.

Thing is, everyone I have spoken to who is on the road a lot, such as truck drivers/couriers and everything in between say that "Managed Motorways" actually do make a large difference and keep the motorway flowing properly which is what we want of course.

However, on the other side of the coin, I dislike the idea that it's theoretically possible to lose your driving licence in what amounts to about a mile of driving as every gantry seems to have speed cameras on in the managed motorway stretches I've driven through, that and it's another step towards having this stuff every mile of motorway from Lands End to John O' Groats, at the extreme of course, but every time they are put up and statistics show that they "work" in one way or another it's more ammunition for the people pushing them on more stretches of motorway.

Furthermore, speed is not the only dangerous thing on the roads, when will they start penalizing tailgaters, central-lane owners club members and various other things that can be just as dangerous as people speeding?

So I am still undecided, but leaning towards the "dislike" camp as the idea of being watched 24/7 when driving on motorways and having people miles and miles away telling me what speed is safe is very "Big Brother" to me and I just don't like it, but I am still open to having my opinion changed. Thumbs Up.
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Benno
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paulington wrote:

I live in Bristol and as such see these very regularly.

Thing is, everyone I have spoken to who is on the road a lot, such as truck drivers/couriers and everything in between say that "Managed Motorways" actually do make a large difference and keep the motorway flowing properly which is what we want of course.

However, on the other side of the coin, I dislike the idea that it's theoretically possible to lose your driving licence in what amounts to about a mile of driving as every gantry seems to have speed cameras on in the managed motorway stretches I've driven through, that and it's another step towards having this stuff every mile of motorway from Lands End to John O' Groats, at the extreme of course, but every time they are put up and statistics show that they "work" in one way or another it's more ammunition for the people pushing them on more stretches of motorway.

Furthermore, speed is not the only dangerous thing on the roads, when will they start penalizing tailgaters, central-lane owners club members and various other things that can be just as dangerous as people speeding?

So I am still undecided, but leaning towards the "dislike" camp as the idea of being watched 24/7 when driving on motorways and having people miles and miles away telling me what speed is safe is very "Big Brother" to me and I just don't like it, but I am still open to having my opinion changed. Thumbs Up.


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johnsmith222
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 05 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
fox_uk wrote:
A little off topic, but what are the chances of these becoming common place on our motorways? I hate those things with a vengeance.


They're on the A/M77 in West of Scotland.
Been on the A77 for about 10 years.
All are rear facing so bikes are rear`exempt`.


No they are not. They are all front facing unless they changed them in the past hour. Confused
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 07 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
If it is around a corner and you are on the inside lane, then change to the outside lane for the next camera, how do they work out the distance you have travelled? The distance between the 3 lanes will be very different... something I've always wondered
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 07 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
snoosnoo wrote:
If it is around a corner and you are on the inside lane, then change to the outside lane for the next camera, how do they work out the distance you have travelled? The distance between the 3 lanes will be very different... something I've always wondered


They don't need to work out the distance, they need to work out the time. The time is measured regardless of whether you've been a lane 2 hog or you've been zipping through traffic like Flash on crack.

The cameras are fixed so the distance is fixed. They know X meters at Y mph = Z time. So anything less than that time = speeding.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 09:15 - 07 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
J.M. wrote:

The cameras are fixed so the distance is fixed. They know X meters at Y mph = Z time. So anything less than that time = speeding.


I think he's getting at the distance will actually be different for each camera (for each lane). Like when you watch athletics and they stagger the start because the inside curve distance will be shorter.

I can't imagine any corner that'd be sharp enough to make a difference, but I think that's what's being mentioned.

Andy
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 07 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
J.M. wrote:

The cameras are fixed so the distance is fixed. They know X meters at Y mph = Z time. So anything less than that time = speeding.


I think he's getting at the distance will actually be different for each camera (for each lane). Like when you watch athletics and they stagger the start because the inside curve distance will be shorter.

I can't imagine any corner that'd be sharp enough to make a difference, but I think that's what's being mentioned.

Andy


Yeah what I'm getting at will make a huge distance difference! Look at the running track, yeah the corner is much sharper but the lanes are much much thinner. It will make quite a difference on the distance travelled
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 07 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
snoosnoo wrote:
Yeah what I'm getting at will make a huge distance difference! Look at the running track, yeah the corner is much sharper but the lanes are much much thinner. It will make quite a difference on the distance travelled


Well, not a whole lot. Maybe 1-2 seconds difference? I can't off hand think of any corners which there would be a huge difference between lane 1 and 2/3. The cameras will allow X seconds leeway anyway. So unless you're sitting at a genuine 55mph in a 50 average zone then you really wouldn't have anything to worry about!

I don't know how the systems have been designed, so I can't really comment fully. But it would be entirely possible for camera 1 to allow X seconds and camera 3 to allow Y seconds.
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 09:25 - 07 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
but then if you change to lane 3 form 1 at different points your true speed will not be measured by the cameras.

if you cut across the corner rather than going around it, you'll be cutting some distance in effect going faster (for the scameras) though at the same speed (limit)

They must have thought about this etc etc I just wonder how, and if they have created a rule, it won't fit every case so the leeway on these scameras around corners will have to be huge!
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