A position everyone should know

[tgabber]

EDIT: Given the discussions later in this thread, I think I ought to point out here that the recovery position might not be in the best interests of seriously injured motorcyclists most of the time. Read the whole thread.

Just attended the St Johns first aid course for those first on the scene of a motorcycle accident. There was one thing we were urged to pass on to everyone we could.

Learn the recovery position if you don't already know it. Here's a link to help you:

https://www.sja.org.uk/firstaid/info/recoveryPosition.asp

Even if you don't know how to do any other first aid, getting a casualty (particularly an unconcious one) into this position is likely to give them the best chance of surviving until professional help arrives.

Now of course there are situations where this might not be the most appropriate thing to do, but in the majority of cases it will be so you are at least playing the odds. Even better though why not do some more thorough first aid training...

Which leads me on to a quick review of the course. It ran from 10am to 3pm with a 15 minute coffee break mid-morning and half an hour for lunch. It was all fairly informal in a workshop/classroom setting.

A lot of what we covered was basic common sense, but unless you've talked it through beforehand, stuff might not occur to you in the heat of the moment at a real accident (and even then I suspect some stuff would get forgotten). Perhaps the most important of these common sense points was about managing the scene of the accident to minimize the risk of further casualties (including yourself!) before treating the injured.

We then covered the basics of assessing injuries and elementary treatment including how to administer mouth-to-mouth and CPR (with practice on the special dummies). All of this applies to any type of accident, not just an RTA involving a motorcycle.

Motorcycle specific, we discussed the reasons why it might be necessary to remove a helmet and were shown and briefly practiced the recommended method to do this.

Finally we were given a few freebies (some of them to make up for the cockup on the first scheduled date for the course), including a flourescent bib, triangular bandage, sterile dressing, gloves and mouth protector, first aid card and booklet. I've now made up a small first aid kit to keep under my bike seat.

If I had one criticism of the course it was that the time seemed rather short for the amount of material we could have covered. I feel we did only scratch the surface of some topics and I would have appreciated more time practicing the techniques under supervision.

Still once again, I'd recommend anyone to do a course like this if only for the fact that it gets you thinking about how you would deal with a situation if you were ever unlucky enough to come across one for real.
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"It's all about dislocating expectation"
Kawasaki KMX125 -> Aprilia RS125 -> Kawasaki ZZR600

[Villers]

In my line of work I have to have frequent first aid or 'save a life' courses. I agree everyone should know some first aid to some extent. The biggest problem though with the recovery position is you have to physically move the casualty. In the event of a motorcycle accident theres a likelihood of back or neck injury and thus moving the injured party may aggravate any damage done. The sad side of this is that (especially in the states) people have had their states worsen because of amateur help and then done the decent thing and sued them just for trying to help. Its disgusting I know but true. Just by sheer coincidence I was at an 18th party last night (im not 18 im 23, you should have seen the amount of young tail there ) and all the kids were drinking. I left early and as I came out there was some lad lying on the floor with three lads round him asking people going by for help, most thought it was some kind of joke/trap so I quickly fired him into the recovery position and left them to it. He stunk of puke too.

Theres a lot of ignorance about first aid, I dont know where the story came from I think it was from the instructor who did my DAS. He said that a guy he knew was suing a bloke who knocked him off his bike and then got out to help. he took the guys helmet off for f@cks sake. It turned out he was a GP too. Sounds like total bullspit I know but........ its a crazy old world!

[tgabber]

[jonboy]

But if the subject is conscious, they can protect their own airway, so aren't you exposing their spine to risks with no benefit?
I completely accept I could be wrong, but shouldn't the recovery position be only for the unconscious?

[tgabber]

[Jimmythe1]

I was lucky enough to sit in on an advanced life support lecture this summer while I was doing some voluntary work in A&E.

The subject you guys have brought up is very interesting indeed, and I'll pass on my own experience.

[In the event of an accident - Phone for Ambulance]

Now the FIRST thing that was drilled into everybody was the need to SUPPORT THE HEAD - keep it absolutely still and in its natural position with the neck. [What I’m not certain about is if it was ok too move it back into the anatomical position if the casualty has had it angalised during impact - I think the principle is that movement should be kept to its absolute minimum in all cases except those involving procedures vital for life. ]
Even if the patient is conscious they should be immobilised. Hold them still, use many pairs of hands if available - and someone talking at the head end (who is entrusted with the job of keeping the head still in relation with the body). KEEP THAT NECK STILL!!!!

The recovery position IS NOT VITAL FOR LIFE, in fact it can be detrimental, especially if cervical spinal injury is present. Structures in the upper levels of the spinal cord contain vital reflex pathways that make us breath and by damaging them nothing can be done to save that patient. Period.

Once yourself or somebody else is 'vigilantly' supporting the head (and the patient is immobilised) - the casualty can now be examined. [n.b. the helmet is best not removed if at all possible to avoid any undue stress on the neck].

Essentially examining a casualty involves your ABC's, and that is something everybody has heard of. Airway, Breathing, Circulation and despite how complicated the medicine becomes within these areas, that is what its all about.

These are the things most vital for life. If the airway is blocked it needs unblocking or an alternative airway made (i.e. tracheotomy). The brain needs air to survive and it can only be without it for a short time, so if the casualty cannot breath sufficiently for themselves, they need help (complications can occur here in trauma cases - i.e. neumothorax etc.) Thirdly circulation involves not only the heart, but control of bleeding.

Now even with training and specialist equipment, many of the above will be difficult to do by the roadside. If the patient is conscious - keep them immobilised and the head still - untill help arrives (avoid any movement if possible, so that includes the recovery position).

Help will arrive sooner than you think, but if a patient is not breathing it could be too late.

If you are confident that the patients neck can be kept still (i.e. you have help), or that there is no alternative, you can try and see if their airway is clear. Loosen clothing around the patients chest (expose it if possible) and look at it on a level. If no movement is occurring it may be that the patient is not breathing and this could be due to some obstruction, on the other hand the chest may be heaving - which would also point to obstruction. The presence of vomit and discoloration around the face is another give away. (KEEP THAT NECK STILL) look down the mouth, is there anything obvious? Is the tongue obstructing breathing? If you are pretty certain the airway is obstructed then it needs unblocking! If you can clear the airway carefully using a finger without moving the patient all the better. If there is no possibility of this the patient can be moved onto their side (this is how a Doctor would check the spine for injury) - but it must be done very VERY carefully keeping the spine completely straight. From this position the patient can freely vomit etc..

If the Air way is clear, but when examining the chest and listening and observing it appears the patient has stopped breathing then you need to breath for them - and this will/may need to involve removing the helmet – this is one instance when you remove a helmet if you need to breath for the injured person. Again the thing is to keep the neck still and avoid all movement.

A person can be kept alive without moving them – and this is what you should aim for – no wooden box and no wheel chair either!!!!!!
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There's no way to happiness, happiness is the way.

[tgabber]

That's a very interesting post Jimmy but also a bit worrying too in that the whole approach seems to contradict what I think I was taught on the course today.

I guess it just goes to show that, as with most important things in life, there is always more than one school of thought.
____________________
"It's all about dislocating expectation"
Kawasaki KMX125 -> Aprilia RS125 -> Kawasaki ZZR600

[Jimmythe1]

[tgabber]

[katana]

Having read this thread.

I'm in the same boat as Tgabber as I thought that was said.

We were also told that all first aid should be taught to the current latest edition (8th) I think I will have to purchase the book to discover what it states.

This course was supposed to be aimed at bikers that were in trouble. it was a short introduction and I'm considering on completing the full course to be a trained first aider and see if work will pay for it.