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It finally happened. Summons for failure to SORN

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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: It finally happened. Summons for failure to SORN Reply with quote

Or more specifically for being the registered keeper of a vehicle which did not meet the insurance requirements of the RTA. In other words, I failed to renew the insurance on a scrap bike and didn't fill in a form.

I'm being taken to court for the actual offence, not an attempt to claim a "debt" . They got the documents into court one day before the six month time limit.

So. I'll pop myself along in a couple of weeks time, plead guilty, read out a statement so the magistrate is fully aware I'm up before him for nothing more serious than failing to fill in a form. Which while strictly illegal, is an utterly victimless offence, the prosecution of which which has zero public interest.

I may also take the oppertunity to point out that the form in question which I failed to fill in does not actually make any form of declaration. It just has my vehicle details, the date and my signature. There is no statement that goes along with that signature. (have a look, form V890

So. Yes. Being prosecuted for failuing to provide the DVLA with a null declaration.

I will undoubtedly be duly ignored, rubber stamped and given a fine four times larger than the person who broke into my property and stole one of my motorcycles. That'll totally teach me a lesson.

That said. The number of demands for payment from the DVLA I've thrown in the bin over the years, I'm still quids-in.
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kawakid
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tbh I'd bring a tooth brush just incase. You obviously need teaching a lesson you criminal.
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Rogue_Shadow
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Utter BS!

Make sure you ride a motorbike into the court!
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Jim Mc
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Re: It finally happened. Summons for failure to SORN Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

I may also take the oppertunity to point out that the form in question which I failed to fill in does not actually make any form of declaration. [/url]


Section 1 appears to be entitled vehicle details and declaration, and section 3 seems to clarify exactly what you are declaring.

I thought they were going to change the SORN process so you only had to declare the vehicle off the road once?


Last edited by Jim Mc on 13:55 - 27 May 2013; edited 1 time in total
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall you saying you did send the form. They must have lost it? Interpretations Act blah blah blah...
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Lazysod
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess this is why confirmation letters are so important, a sorn declaration (or null declaration in this case) could easily get lost in the post and you wouldn't know until court proceedings were issued, while it's not a legal requirement I always send my stuff recorded to cover my back.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Re: It finally happened. Summons for failure to SORN Reply with quote

Jim Mc wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:

I may also take the oppertunity to point out that the form in question which I failed to fill in does not actually make any form of declaration. [/url]


Section 1 appears to be entitled vehicle details and declaration, and section 3 seems to clarify exactly what you are declaring.

I thought they were going to change the SORN process so you only had to declare the vehicle off the road once?


Section 1 is entitled "Vehicle details and declaration" but does not, in point of fact, contain a declaration.

Section 3 is entitled "What your declaration means" but is nonsensical as no such declaration is contained on the form.

If there was a declaration it would say something like "I, as the registered keeper of the vehicle declare that it will not be used or parked on a public road from the date given above.". It does not.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazysod wrote:
I guess this is why confirmation letters are so important, a sorn declaration (or null declaration in this case) could easily get lost in the post and you wouldn't know until court proceedings were issued, while it's not a legal requirement I always send my stuff recorded to cover my back.


You misunderstand. I didn't send one.

I've been working on the principle that it's all a total waste of time and that the DVLA wouldn't actually prosecute someone for it in court because they don't get to keep the fine.

Be interesting to see how many other people are up for the same thing and just plead guilty by post.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:


Be interesting to see how many other people are up for the same thing and just plead guilty by post.



Are you trying to be Clarence Willcock?
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johnsmith222
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

You misunderstand. I didn't send one.


Just say you sent it and you'll win. Thumbs Up
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dannymassive
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will be interesting to see what the outcome of this is....

Hope it goes in your favour Thumbs Up
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluezedd wrote:

Just say you sent it and you'll win. Thumbs Up


I am on public record in various places holding forth my oppinion of the SORN system and my refusal to participate in it.

As such, it would be extremely foolish to say any such thing. The consequences of being found out are very severe.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:41 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluezedd wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:

You misunderstand. I didn't send one.

Just say you sent it and you'll win. Thumbs Up

Does that constitute evidence [...] sufficient to raise an issue with respect to [the defence of having SORNed]?

I wouldn't necessarily take it on the chin - it's their job to make their case - but the satisfaction of telling the DVLA psuedolegal that they won't be seeing a penny for their trouble should be some compensation.

For extra fun, you could tell them that you need copies all of their evidence (if any) in order to present a defence.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

For extra fun, you could tell them that you need copies all of their evidence (if any) in order to present a defence.


They already sent it. It's a single page witness statement from a civil servant stating he has checked the database and no insurance policy was extant for that vehicle at the time of the alleged offence.

Difficult to argue that one.

Although I like that wee bit you found at the end in paragraph 9. Basically puts the onus on them to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you didn't furnish them with particulars.

A high standard of proof required and the wording is nicely vague. It's better than the interpretation act defence as far as I can see, suprised they left it in.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:


I am on public record in various places holding forth my oppinion of the SORN system and my refusal to participate in it.

As such, it would be extremely foolish to say any such thing. The consequences of being found out are very severe.


Then you're a mug. You don't beat these vermin by going head-on, you slip behind and give it to them up the arse. That's what they deserve for being amoral poncing filth.
The irony of that coming from you. Laughing

"let's beat fucking scum that fuck us over, but not head on, let's do it secretly before they notice 'cos that's not hypocritical like them at all" Thumbs Up
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

st3v3 wrote:
The irony of that coming from you. Laughing

"let's beat fucking scum that fuck us over, but not head on, let's do it secretly before they notice 'cos that's not hypocritical like them at all" Thumbs Up


You really are a dumbass, aincha. If you are the victim you have the moral right to choose whatever terms of engagement you wish.
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could make this even more interesting and plead not guilty, then ask that the case is heard at crown court in front of a jury. (don't know if you can still opt for crown?)

That would be fun though!

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UnspeedySam
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I commend you for taking them on. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
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Pedd
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the insurance on the vehicle that is off road and basically in bits have to be motor insurance ??? is there anywhere that states this ??? (there may well be I'm just wondering) Otherwise wouldn't your household insurance cover anything in your shed lol. so Technically speaking it was insured hehe Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 27 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedd wrote:
Does the insurance on the vehicle that is off road and basically in bits have to be motor insurance ??? is there anywhere that states this ??? (there may well be I'm just wondering) Otherwise wouldn't your household insurance cover anything in your shed lol. so Technically speaking it was insured hehe Thumbs Up Thumbs Up


Nope. It has to be Road Traffic Act insurance for third party liabilities. It also has to be registered on the MIB database.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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ian505050
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 28 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel your pain dude, they are trying to shove a big rust pole up my arse at the moment and its stressing me out to the limit.

I woke up last night at 3:00 in the morning and the Girlfriend told me i was shouting "I will fook you up DVLA and bring you down to china town."

I felt and idiot in the morning because i half remembered doing it.

https://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii302/ian505050/ian505050%203/hulkDVLA_zps18c51959.jpg
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LongJohn22
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 28 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember a considerable number of years ago, a bloke was prosecuted for having an uninsured car parked on the road outside his house. He argued, successfully that as the engine was out of the vehicle at the time, it was technically not a car and therefore not liable for compulsery insurance.
As your bike is in bits, surely the same applies although I do appreciate things do change over time it does seem ridiculous that you have to insure a collection of bits and pieces that no longer resemble any sort of motorised transportation. Just a thought.
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Hyaon
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 28 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall a bloke forgetting to renew his tax disc several months past due date..he cheekily sorned it online and heard nothing after...goes to show it depends on the people who get the workloads your numbers show up in. That bloke obviously got Rogerborg in disguise [shhh]

EDIT: THAT PERSON WASN'T ME O_o
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