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Can a company cut your wages?

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shereen
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Can a company cut your wages? Reply with quote
Just come into work - boss has said from January my wages will be cut by 20%

Can they do this? I am self employed and work solely for this company.

WTF!? Fuck shit bollox!!! Sad

HELP!!

EDIT - Will check my contract when I get home but im pretty sure it does not say they can do this.

Pissed off!!
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 08:17 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I am self employed and work solely for this company.




Its only supposed to be allowed by explicit agreement of both parties. Namely because the pay is one side of the contract and you cannot renegotiate a contract without both sides having consideration and agreeing.

Doing it without negotiation would be breaking the contract.



Secondly, you're not really self employed if you're working for one company. HMRC take a dim view of this, they are doing this to dodge national insurance and payroll costs. Which is good for them but bad for you.


I pretty much know what they will do, they will attempt to use the silence is acceptance of a contract change on you. In an attempt to force you to accept it.

And if you don't accept it then you'll be asked to leave.... which is actually constructive dismissal.
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Spudly
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PostPosted: 08:18 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your contract may differ, but if you are self employed and working as a contractor, then what they have just told you is that they are only prepared to pay 80% of the current rate for your services. Given they are telling you six months in advance, it would seem they have at least had a nod at your contract.
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uberkron
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PostPosted: 08:19 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you are self employed, how are you not the boss. Your situation needs more explanation.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 08:25 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
uberkron wrote:
If you are self employed, how are you not the boss. Your situation needs more explanation.



A lot of dodgy companies will ask you to work as a 'contractor' when you clearly aren't. I remember getting an employers pack when I ran my business. Its deadly common in IT, which is why I constantly got these threats about umbrella companies and being a fake self employed person.

It said you are self employed if:

EDIT - https://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/

You work for more than one company
Provide tools.
Can refuse work.

Thats all I remember there were more.


It is great for the company because essentially you have zero rights (well you have zero rights as an employee anyway). Also the company in question doesn't have to pay national insurance contributions which adds 14% to the cost of employees.

I think the bigger problem was if HMRC decided you were not a real self employed person, they come after YOU for the missing national insurance.



I'd start looking for a new job if I were you OP, the self employment status might mess up any JSA claim, as far as I know contribs based JSA your not supposed to get when self employed.
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shereen
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
fatpies wrote:
uberkron wrote:
If you are self employed, how are you not the boss. Your situation needs more explanation.



A lot of dodgy companies will ask you to work as a 'contractor' when you clearly aren't. I remember getting an employers pack when I ran my business. Its deadly common in IT, which is why I constantly got these threats about umbrella companies and being a fake self employed person.

It said you are self employed if:

EDIT - https://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/

You work for more than one company
Provide tools.
Can refuse work.

Thats all I remember there were more.


It is great for the company because essentially you have zero rights (well you have zero rights as an employee anyway). Also the company in question doesn't have to pay national insurance contributions which adds 14% to the cost of employees.

I think the bigger problem was if HMRC decided you were not a real self employed person, they come after YOU for the missing national insurance.


I have had a couple of invoices from other companies through my books from the tax year just gone but that is it.

I pay my own tax and national insurance.

Its a bit confusing so I will explain properly.

I started with the company in question on a cash in hand basis. after about 1 year they insisted that I go on the books which I agreed to as long as my tax and national insurance was covered by them. (The way I looked at it was if they insisted I should be on the books then I should not be left out of pocket).

So basically I get my wages (a basic figure plus a commission percentage.) On top of that I get 20% (tax) and NIC added on.

The total of all that is my final wage. I then pay tax on the whole amount.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you are self employed, they are just changing the rate they are willing to pay. What is the length of your contract? I'd say 6months notice for a contractor is more than enough notice.
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shereen
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
If you are self employed, they are just changing the rate they are willing to pay. What is the length of your contract? I'd say 6months notice for a contractor is more than enough notice.


There is no end date on my contract.
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shereen
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
fatpies wrote:

It said you are self employed if:

EDIT - https://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/

You work for more than one company
Provide tools.
Can refuse work.



According to your link:

As a general guide as to whether a worker is an employee or self-employed; if the answer is 'Yes' to all of the following questions, then the worker is probably an employee:

Do they have to do the work themselves?
Can someone tell them at any time what to do, where to carry out the work or when and how to do it?
Can they work a set amount of hours?
Can someone move them from task to task?
Are they paid by the hour, week, or month?
Can they get overtime pay or bonus payment?
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I answer yes to all those so im an employee.

Where does that leave me then?

EDIT: Fucked no doubt Rolling Eyes
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lihp
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You need to report your employer to the HMRC then, which will land them in a massive pile of shit!

However, that still won't help you too much.

As you're currently self employed, they are well within their rights (in that respect) to offer less money, or not accept the contract. Since there's no end date, I would assume it's on a short term basis that is rolling, for example a monthly rolling contract.

There's no way you would be able to enforce they pay the same as the contract with the same terms forever, with no exit clauses.

They have simply stated, that they're only willing to pay 80% of the cost, it is up to you to negotiate your contract with them or advertised for other work.

As you're self employed, they can't really "dismiss" you, or discipline you.

Also note that "probably", When I did wedding photography, depending on the contract laid out, I could often say yes to all those too, but was still self employed, and as you stated earlier, you have had other works go through their books, so you have more than 1 contract, which makes arguing your case for employed/self employed a bit more difficult.
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mysterious_rider
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tell them that's fine. Seeing as you're doing 20% less hours in your new updated contract. Thumbs Up
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J0Al1
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
My first job (IT Trainer). . . Cut my wage by 1/3 !!

I was only on 8k to start with Shocked

It was 1/3 cut for all staff or last one in gets the boot (ie me) and the boss didnt want that because it wold have ment a potential loss of contracts we delbt with.

I took the cut as it was my first job and I was learning a lot...

Tehn they paid us with two cheques... One lost in expenses and the other the min wage so they paid no TAX, but took from me what I sould have been paying.. Wankers! I was so niave i didnt realise, but CAB said I have no leg to stand on unless I had all the evidence... of cours,e i didnt keep any paperwork back then.

Then new owners took the firm on because it was going 'under'.. On top of our pay cut they put ins REALLY tight employee targets for any chance of any futur rise.

I didn not agree to their terms so they asked me to leave.

I burst into tears in the car on the way home.. Because I was 18, young, shy, offended, already doing a fab job with glowing clientel reports, for bollocks all money.

I guess it lead to work in London.

But basically companies have you by the balls . . . end of!
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shereen
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
mysterious_rider wrote:
Tell them that's fine. Seeing as you're doing 20% less hours in your new updated contract. Thumbs Up


Id rather the 20% in money Laughing
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Rockhopper
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PostPosted: 16:35 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Its called IR35 or "Disguised employment" and reporting your employer could land you in a load of trouble as well. Basically being self employed gives you certain tax advantages, one of which is that your company pays corporation tax which is less than income tax would be. You can also offset many expenses against that tax.
If you only work for one employer then you'd struggle to prove that your actually self employed (plus the other things you've already looked at).
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ficedula
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rockhopper wrote:
Basically being self employed gives you certain tax advantages, one of which is that your company pays corporation tax which is less than income tax would be. You can also offset many expenses against that tax.


Not if you're registered self-employed; you're thinking about contractors who have their own limited company. If you're registered self employed, you still pay income tax at the same rate. What you/your "employer" is getting out on, is the employers NI contributions.

IR35 is mostly about contractors setting up their own limited company (with one director and employee, themselves!) to perform the tax dodge you're thinking of.

Assuming OP doesn't have a limited company then it may be that any blowback from HMRC would fall solely on the employer - as it's them that's evading tax. Obviously you'd want to be pretty damn sure about that before getting them involved ... but if that were true it could be worthwhile: if HMRC decide you're an employee, then the company can't cut your pay, and if they fire you because you refuse to accept a pay cut, they'll owe you redundancy pay.
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Carvel
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seeing as poverty beckons, why dont you sell that quite clearly non-existant Ducati 848 you claim to own, you bald, autistic lesbian.
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Last edited by Carvel on 18:47 - 10 Jun 2013; edited 2 times in total
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pits
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Time to sell that Ducati then, surely the finance is 20% of your pay....
If you do, you essentially don't lose or gain 20% and your back doesn't get even more ruined, like when you had that GSXR which ruined your back
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DottyDuck
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ollie has a lovely bike which would be great for cheap insurance... maybe exchange your red bike for it? like a straight swap?

https://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/ollielovesturtles/IMGP0755_zps87480d15.jpg

here is also a helmet that has a custom paint job... done for by myself which is light ..so will therefore help with any existing back problems.

https://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o743/DottyDuck/20130317_014506_zps093a5e1c.jpg

you may need to mention it too the insurance because it is a one off.. i value the helmet at about £179.99

p.s may need bar risers.
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Last edited by DottyDuck on 19:37 - 10 Jun 2013; edited 1 time in total
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shereen
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Carvel wrote:
Seeing as poverty beckons, why dont you sell that quite clearly non-existant Ducati 848 you claim to own, you bald, autistic lesbian.


How about I fuck you up the arse at the BBQ with the new exhausts I just purchased for my very lovely shiny red Ducati you jealous little bum bandit?
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Carvel
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can I please pledge your bald head to a mirror finish whilst you do it? Dont exert yourself too much though, i'd hate for you to be crippled forever with your ever worsening back cancer.

p.s you are bald.

p.p.s fuck you Sharon
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pits
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
shereen wrote:
Carvel wrote:
Seeing as poverty beckons, why dont you sell that quite clearly non-existant Ducati 848 you claim to own, you bald, autistic lesbian.


How about I fuck you up the arse at the BBQ with the new exhausts I just purchased for my very lovely shiny red Ducati you jealous little bum bandit?

First point, pictures or you haven't bought them.

Second point Carvel will always be mad, this is the man that takes the piss out of me for having a Ducati 750SS with 64bhp at the rear wheel and insists the 900SS is a better bike as it has more power yet 3 years of saying he will buy one and he still hasn't.....also the same man that says this

Quote:
20:05:47 Carvel: if you need moar power to go quicker you are a terrible driver



That still said, pictures or you are talking shit.
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Carvel
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
pits wrote:
Second point Carvel will always be mad, this is the man that takes the piss out of me for having a Ducati 750SS with 64bhp at the rear wheel and insists the 900SS is a better bike as it has more power yet 3 years of saying he will buy one and he still hasn't.....also the same man that says this

Thats just wonderful.

Quote:
20:05:47 Carvel: if you need moar power to go quicker you are a terrible driver

In the context where it was mentioned it made sense, rather than just throwing it out there on its own..
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multijoy
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blimey, this some proper playground flirting!

In response to the actual topic; if you're self-employed, you're knackered - best you can do is attempt to renegotiate the contract.

If you're actually employed, but contract or are required to be self-employed, then IR35 is your friend.
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 10 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can't they just give you the 90 days notice and tell you to suck it up or fuck off?
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