Why isn't there many diesel motorbikes?

[Az]

Bit of a random question, but why isn't there many diesel motorcycles?

[Andy_Pagin]

Because they're heavy and gutless which is the opposite of what bikes are all about.
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[Matt B]

Also heavy... And yet Harleys sell.
Would vibrate a lot and be noisy...And yet Harleys sell.
Potential to be ridden by complete weirdos...And yet Harleys sell.
Would just look wrong...And yet Harleys sell.
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[Rogerborg]

[Ollie1995]

There are production diesel motorcycles though? They just don't sell very well...
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[charlie74]

the main reason i came across was that small diesel engines still kick out too much vibration for mass production,
something to do with the low revs.

i did look and see if anyone had done a conversion or 3 with the small 500-600 cc diesels you get in micro cars but seems not.

i guess the lack of performance for minimal fuel gain wouldnt be worth it in general

what bugs me more is the lack of lpg options, even on scooters,
strange as mainland china is banning the use of petrol scooters in major cities and forcing lpg in, yet nothings filtered over here yet

[Matt B]

Enfield made them for a while as an option on the Bullets until emissions laws killed them off. 6.5 hp, just imagine it...
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[stevo as b4]

With smaller bike sized engines there is still and will foreseeably be a huge gulf in what a modern technology 600cc sports bike engine can make and the power you could get from a 600cc diesel.

The bigger you make a diesel engine the more efficient it is and also the more favourable it would compare to a petrol motor to a large extent.

The main reasons in no order for no mass produced diesel bikes are:
1, No fleet sales

2, Small market for motorcycles and diesel would only be a fraction of that.

3, You can get 120mpg bikes already, do you need more fuel economy, for the potential downsides?

4, Cost, weight and servicing bills would all go up a lot on any typical bike if it had a diesel version.

5, Cost of developing small high tech diesel engines and again the very limited market for them other than the bikes themselves.

6, unable to compete cc to cc with the same sized petrol engine, so where would you put the capacity rules for diesel racing bikes, and would it be fair to run nasp 600cc bikes against say 1000cc turbo diesels?

7, lack of refinement and usability. The last time any of the Jap four tried to make production turbo petrol superbikes, they were at best not that successful. If making turbocharging a petrol bike is frought with difficulty to get it as usable as a nasp bike and rider friendly, then I expect it's even more difficult in some ways to make a very rideable and useable diesel bike motor. (Having said that diesel engines wont have to work over 1/2 as big a rev range as a petrol turbo would)

8, Future of diesel powered vehicles and passenger car's is starting to look a bit ropey now. Efficiency and downsizing of high tech forced induction petrol engines is now making diesel seem far less attractive or cost effective in cars now. Small and up to medium size family cars will go back to petrol engines and hybrid technology very soon. Diesel is more viable in larger cars, MPV's, utility vehicles, Camper vans etc, but less so in anything less than an executive saloon.

DPF problems and cost to maintain/replace is a massive issue currently and from 2014 all new diesel cars will have to use ad blue exhaust after treatment, which is another costly addition and more scope for things to go wrong.

The cost of replacing a big diesel silencer box that has the cats built in, the DPF and the Ad blue injection etc is scary.

There's much more chance of seeing an electric Fireblade in the next 5years than a diesel version!

[andys675]

spoke to a guy once who had one of those enfields, he said it took forever to get upto 50mph, so much so he didn't slow down for anything
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[Clanger]

[CarlosCBR]

[Walloper]

Diesels by nature are noisy and vibey. And because they are subjected to harsh power spikes due to the unique combustion process in Diesel, engines have to be made of heavier materials.

That was then

Modern design has allowed the combustion process to be very significantly improved to reduce smoke and more importantly to reduce the effects of the 'Uncontrolled Burn' or 'Diesel Knock' the characteristic clatter a Diesel makes.

There are now Diesels made from Alloy and since lighter components can be used the max RPM can increase too. The lighter material can be move easier so acceleration can improve also.
Diesels in a bike were always rubbish due to acceleration and basic weight effects of the lump of Iron in the frame.

The cost of Diesel fuel doesn't help development either. If Diesel was sold for it's 'true' price and not it's Adjusted for maximum Tax revenue price then we may have seen Diesel bikes on the market. Diesels are more efficient than petrol and can run cleaner as they do not produce the same CO (Carbon monoxide) and etc. their cousins produce.
One thing has always been pollution from particulate emission though.
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[map]

I looking into this recently. IIRC there are no diesel motorbikes in production any more for Joe Public. A Dutch firm, E.V.A., recently stopped making their model.

Previously there was talk of a cruiser style bike with a diesel engine. Can't find the links any more so I suspect that never got out of the design/asking for money stage.

There is a diesel motorcycle rally (was held Thursday 30th of May until the 2nd of June, link click here for 2013 details). Try looking on dieselbike.net.

Personally I've always wondered how long it would take Honda to fit a diesel engine into the GoldWing.

There is always talk of military versions and prototypes for this. Only because it's said military want to standardise on diesel for all their vehicle types.

HTH
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[Matt B]

[stinkwheel]

[Walloper]

[Vracktal]

Interestingly, this was in my subs page in youtube today

-> Ride on a '71 Royal Enfield Dieselbike

Despite everything, I would totally ride that. It looks hilarious.

And the reason most companies haven't bothered with a production dieselbike is because the development costs vs the number of people who want one just doesn't add up yet. The closest to one that anyone's ever got is a small California company called Hayes Diversified Technologies who built a custom 650cc diesel thumper that slotted into the Kawasaki KLR650 frame to make the Kawasaki-Hayes M1030-M1. These were then sold to the military, who needed a dieselbike for their one field fuel policy. (JP8)

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/https://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/images/ops/16bde_216drs_hr.jpg

The bike was actually a success in design terms, it could cruise at a top speed of 90mph, and achieve 96mpg at around 50mph/60mph. The problem is, Hayes was such a small company that they could never keep up with demand, and they only produced a few hundred before the army started phasing the bikes out of service due to their lack of rider protection in firefights.

Every so often a batch of M1030-M1 bikes comes up for sale, i'd love to get my hands on one sometime since they make really good offroaders, and because they're idi-diesel they can run in deep water and mud over the block since the air intake is the only part that needs to be above water.
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[Walloper]

[scorps]

Stinkwheel, not just me then
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[daemonoid]

[MicraShed]

Why on Earth would you want a DERV bike?

Buy a Plac-90 if you want fuel economy. The only possible advantage I can see is that Dizzlers can be persuaded to run on all manner of crap so come the Zombie apocalypse when civilisation ends you can probably find something to run the engine on so you can make good your escape from the rampaging hordes.

Just don't run it on Citroen Hydraflush as whilst it will burn it will knacker your engine (I speak from experience).

[Walloper]

[map]

[karoshi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR4v4eAkyv4

Some guy called Heiko with a 3cyl Supercharged diesel engine in a Triumph Tiger..

There's also this one: https://www.suckindiesel.com/?page_id=12 - Irish guy called Neil used a diesel Smart Car engine in his tiger, there's a travel blog on their site also.

100ish mph and 100ish mpg? I'd have one if I could afford the purchase cost, almost a month of commuting on one tank.. and they sound awesome
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