Am I an idiot?

[WindyMiller]

So, I'm almost half way through my restriction period. I think I've hit the overconfident and a little complacent phase. I've had a couple of moments recently. Running wide on a bend I took too fast (no oncoming traffic) a few squirrelly emergency stops, that sort of thing. Then today.

Overtaking is something I like to do. I try to be sensible about it, so normally avoid overtaking on white hatched areas unless necessary. Today I thought I'd go for it anyway.

I think the paint on the hatching was a bit thick, so as I went over it (at about 70), it started bouncing the front end about, which quickly started pushing the front wheel from side to side. I've never experienced a tankslapper before and I never want to again, 'cos it was fucking scary. I said "oh shit" and prepared for imminent death by clenching my arsehole and holding on for dear life.

Anyway, I think I slowed a bit and drifted across the road to where the paint wasn't so thick, the bike sorted itself out and I carried on homewards.

So, what I want to know is, am I simply an idiot for riding on the hatched area? Is that a normal thing for a bike to do in such circumstances? Or might i have had too much weight on my arms? Or is my suspension suspect? And if I do ever have another tankslapper, what should I have done to get out of it?

Maybe it wasn't really as bad as it felt, but I'll be more careful in future. For a while, anyway. For any locals, the hatching in question is on the A4 west of Newbury, just before the Kintbury turn. After the kebab can.

TL/DR - had a bit of a tankslapper, not dead.
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YBR125 SV650S Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[Sako]

Meh, shit happens, you survived, end of.

Although the running wide on a bend is bad bad, you need to get your machine control a bit sharper and read the bends better.

[Wonko The Sane]

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Possibly holding the bars too tight, maybe before you got onto the uneven surface.
Possibly tyre pressures.
Possibly wheel or head bearings.
Possibly the suspension is incorrectly adjusted or needs servicing.

Possibly wasn't a tank slapper. Unless your wrists ache and you have dents in your tank.

There is mixed advice for getting out of a speed wobble situation. It could even depend on the power of your bike as what you do. On my bigger bike it can start weaving a little on certain surfaces so I wind it on slowly to see if it smooths out...and it always does...on that bike.



There will be completely different advice to follow.
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The Harry Turner Project

[WindyMiller]

Yeah, I was thinking afterwards I need to back off the throttle a bit until I have more control. Work on road positioning and stuff.

On the running wide, had there been oncoming traffic I reckon I could've leaned over and got round, but there wasn't, so I ran a little wide. Still not in good control though.

No kittens were harmed and I've learnt something, so it's not all bad.

Wheelies definitely not something I'll be attempting soon (on purpose).
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YBR125 SV650S Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[Tungtvann]

Don't lean, counter steer if you need that little bit extra.

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Do this.

Position for safety.
Position for best view.
Stop in the distance you can see.
When you do those as part of your riding you can ride on the roads like a twat and live.
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Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project

[WindyMiller]

[_Iain_]

I thought standard advice was to pin it as it took the weight off the front & settled the bike.

I also heard that braking or slowing down are about the worst things you can do as it puts more weight on the front & makes it wobble more.
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Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

[WindyMiller]

All good advice, thanks.

I don't have the power to accelerate out of it. I think I may have tried that for a split second (not sure), I just backed off slightly to lose speed gently.
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YBR125 SV650S Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[mr jamez]

Probably just a shake of the head, I just mash the throttle which seems to fix most problems
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NSR 125F > BROS 400 > NC30 > BROS 400 > Trumpet S4 > '97 VFR 750

[C1REX]

If you going wide on bends then you do something wrong.
Probably the speed is too high.

Just slow down more on a responsive gear, take the bend slowly, straighten the bike and accelerate hard.
Sounds simple but I need to remember this as well

Don't cut before you see the end of it.
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[Dean-J]

even a 33bhp Sv has the power to pull out of a speed wobble.

Imo you didnt have an actual tank slapper, because A) you wouldnt have kept it goin on thick white crosshatching and B) you shut off the throttle which would have binned an actual tankslapper.

Running wide is often poor positioning and/or poor setup. dont EVER focus on where your running wide, just keep loking where you want to go, bit more countersteer and lean in more if needs be. you can also gently apply rear brake whilst turning in more should help neaten things up and bring you back on line.
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Current: 99 Yamaha Thuundercat
Previous: K7 GSXR 1000 K4 GSXR 600 roadbike, CBR 600 Steelie Track bike, 2005 SV1000Sz, 2004 FZ6 Streetfighter,2003 Yamaha Thundercat, 2002 SV650, 1989 Yamaha DT125R

[Musketeer]

Wasn't it just a simple wobble like here...

https://youtu.be/6X3EVDrZzaY?t=2m51s

I get them often. They sort themselves out as you keep twisting the throttle. They usually occur when you twist your throttle hard on exit making your front light'ish I suppose and it bounces back on the surface under some angles or when the front hit some uneven surface. All you get is a grin on your face.

Tank slappers are much more violent and having them mid corner wouldn't be cool at all.
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Current Bike: Yamaha XSR900 Previous bikes: Honda CBR1000RR Fireblade, Kawasaki ZX-6R Ninja, Aprilia RS125 2-stroke

[Speed]

Chalk it up as a lesson learned. You'll know for next time. Some people who have made a mistake like that in the past never walked away from it. Always worth bearing that in mind.
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Current: Suzuki GSXR 750 Y
Former: Kawasaki ZX6R Ninja F3

[WindyMiller]

[Teflon-Mike]

1/ The Crash Comes when Confidence outweighs Competance.

You've been getting cocky & blase and bikes given you a slap on the wrist. Heed it.

2/ Running wide.

You'll have gone in too 'hot', and then been phased by dilemah between slowing down some more.... making bike try and stand up and run wider still, in self defeating cycle, of slowing and widening, rather than laying the bugger over, committing to the corner, grabbing it by the scruff of the neck, getting on the throttle and accelerating to make the bugger PULL round.

This is one of Code's [US-Cam-Clip-Voice-Over-Accent]'Natural Inhibitors'...

I REALLY hate his so often offered advice for riding through your natural inhibitors... fear is there for a reason... ignore it at your peril... its a natural survival mechanism..... and so much of Code-Code is offered as Mantra, without explanation or reason for the advice, it's encouragement to ride into danger thinking its a good thing, far too often... but still.

In-Slow -> Out-Fast.

Braking late, going in hot? Just no. dont even GO THERE let alone try and ride through the natural inhibitor.

Back off. See corner, SLOW, take your time. Pick your line, drift wide BEFORE the corner, so you can take a good look through it, see what's ahead. DONT commit to a corner TOO SOON.

There's no hurry. Remember. Rushing is quick way to get hurt on a motorbike.

OLD SKOOL WORX!

- Get your slowing done in a straight line before the corner.
- Reach Corner at speed you are going to go round corner
- Tip in & accelerate GENTLY through the bend.

In slow. Out fast.

Backing off and slowing early. MAKES TIME, and SAVES EFFORT.

You back off and bleed speed, you give yourself space to weigh up the aproaching bend. You make space to see in and through, as well as veer to whatever side gives best sight line, or aproach angle.

Keeping it on the gas as long as possible, then trying to reel it back in on the brakes; you are shortening your aproach, and denying yourself the time to line it up, then making work for yourself to get the braking done and tip in, and far too often people tip in too early and still on the brakes, fighting the bike to do so.

On the brakes the bike wont want to lie down, and will naturally tend to try drifting wide....

This means that if you employ that style, you inevitably end up in a visciouse circle;

On the brakes as you tip in, coming off them again, and trying to get back on the gas, unsettles the bike, making it harder and harder to come off the brakes and get the bike turning, rather than braking.

Leads you to believe you HAVE to brake harder and turn even earlier, against the running wide.....

So more braking force, more unsettlement between brakes and gas, more running wide... harder and harder it becomes.

NIP IT IN THE BUD.

In Slow.... out fast. and SLOW doesn't mean 'BRAKE'.. it means roll off, and give yourself time to judge the corner and arrive without brakes.

Doesn't seem so dramatic; may feel rather 'slow'... but play the 'Least-Brakes' game; try and ride a twisty road using your brakes as little as possible. Do it ALL on the throttle.

As you learn to do it on the throttle, and line a bike up; you will start to gain speed, AND control.

Will feel like you are back on a tiddler to start, and you'll be going 125 slow; and you'll catch yourself out more often than you'll want to admit, arriving at a corner FAR too slow, wondering why you slowed THAT much... but you'll pick it back up.

And without going 'as fast' you'll go faster.. if that makes sense? Going slower, taking your time, making less work for yourself, you will have a less dramatic ride, with less peaks of high speed acceleration, followed by harsh braking and scary cornering... but, your average time point to point, will start to fall, and your overall average speed come up, damping the peaks and troughs.

Counter-Steering? Hanging off, and all that kind of stuff?!?!?

Forget it. JUST try and ride it clean. COOL riding. Easy Riding. DONT make work for yourself.

Far too much is made of these points of elevated technique, and thanks to Code's-Code, you could easily believe that they are 'essential' and the only way to ride a motorcycle..... they ent! But Counter-Steering is a cheap-trick, and Code has made his millions selling the idea to every-one... so neither he, nor any of his devotees or acolytles would like to admit that its not REALLY that astounding, or that there's anything else to riding!

A little 'positive' steering-servo effect from conciouse counter-LOADING of the handle-bars... what by Code-Code is commonly called 'counter-steer'.... can be helpful... to 'initiate' a turn on the tip-in, but....

Trouble with the 'assistance' of Counter-Bar-Loading, is that as described by Code-Code, far to often its NOT used as an 'assistant' to help you 'tip-in' but if you go back to the visciouse circle of early-turning and running wide, it's used as a 'crutch' to over-come that "It WONT TURN!" panic.

So, rather than getting smooth, and hence fast, where such techniques as C-B-L can help you be smoother AND faster... it is merely used as yet another High-Force-Phenomina... allowing a numpty rider to go slowly, with a lot of effort, a lot of drama and a lot of chances to fuck it up! Especially if they are replacing thier panic with "Be Brave - Ride through inhibition!" advice!!!!!!! !!!!!!

LEARN TO WALK BEFORE YOU TRY TO RUN!

In Slow -> Out Fast.

Off the brakes. Ride it on the throttle. Master some basic control, learn to plan your corners. And give your self TIME to do that, NOT rushing into them.

Work on that, and it leads you naturally into 'advanced' riding, particularly the technique of 'Deep' cornering; pushing the tip in point further and further into the bend, sharpening the turn and shortening the corner to get up and back on the gas earlier; which is what a lot of Code-Code is trying to get people to do, without actually telling them that, but where, the philosophy behind the mantras starts to make sense, because you are braking further into the bend... but your not trying to turn at the same time... then you are using C-B-L to servo and speed the steering to make that faster, tighter turn, to get on the gas out of the corner earlier..

Which is when you are making In-Slow -> Out fast work for you, to go EVEN quicker, and 'safer' using much more controlled and shorter duration loadings if not lower loadings, to negotiate your turn, rather than as a crutch, creating high-drama-forces, making you FEEL like you are doing a lot of work, and riding real-hard, merely to go averagely fast, in less control, and with less margin of safety.

To Wit... maybe time to go do some further training; not sure that 'advanced' riding is appropriate yet... but certainly intermediary heading that way.

3/ You DIDN'T have a 'Slapper'.....

Well you may have done..... have you ever met my ex? But your love life is your own concern!

It was a wobble.

White lines & unwashed 'reservations' are not the place to be doing UK MAX Speed limit! You TIT! Not for riding there... for KNOWING BETTER before you DID!

White lines are bumpy and have compromised grip. Even the ones down the middle of the road to cross once are not nice.... to ride onto a section of hatching? Come ON!

Bumps, and reduced grip, AND all the crap and gravel that is swept there by cars passing it but not driving over it!

This was NOT a good idea from the start, was it? And you KNEW IT!

Fair enough, at walking pace to filter past stationary or slow moving queues. Maybe 20-30mph when filtering... possibly 40 if you have a bit of confidence... but 70?

So, you KNEW it was a bad idea... now you have proved it!

DONT do it again. Meanwhile go check tyres and tyre pressures, and possibly think about greasing your rear chock linkage and changing your fork oil...... often neglected them.... and significantly hammered both by bumpy roads AND severe load riding styles
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[WindyMiller]

I was wondering when Mike would show up I am not disappoint. That's a proper Teflon post

I agree with much of that Mike (will reread properly later). I realised this morning I haven't had any training since my CBT, so I might have to look into it. Like the idea of the least brakes game though.
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YBR125 SV650S Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[c_dug]

I don't agree with the whole running wide in a corner being down to going too fast. I doubt there are many corners on the road where you will have the balls and view to try and go around it faster than is possible. I would say it is more down to confidence leaning the bike that. bit. further. which is never nice when you are already riding at your own personal limit.

What I'm trying to say is it is unlikely that you are riding at the bike's limit, you just need to trust yourself to push it that bit further when you get into an oh shit situation like that.

How are your tyres? My front is getting a quite low which causes me to run a bit wide sometimes, there is a particular half-roundabout which I take particular joy in flicking around on decent tyres on my way in to work in the mornings, it is doable at 50 easily enough with fresh rubber. I'm running wide below 40 now though.
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