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Hazard Perception Test...

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Orta
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Joined: 21 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 21 Jul 2013    Post subject: Hazard Perception Test... Reply with quote
Got my car license 8 years ago, the theory had a hazard perception element so I kinda know what to expect. Is the motorcycle one any different to the car one? Other than I'm assuming the footage has been taken from a motorcycle? It's still looking for the same types of hazards, and there's nothing specific to being on a Bike?

I only ask because the practice things I've found are ALL for the car hazard perception.
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solemnwarning
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 21 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's the exact same bollocks, same videos. Even the theory side is almost the same.

Gotta make money somehow.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 21 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Identical to the car one. Do some online practice vids the night before to get you in the mindset and just focus - should pass easy if youve done before
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 22 Jul 2013    Post subject: Re: Hazard Perception Test... Reply with quote
There are two or three motorcycle specific multiple choice questions, the rest is identical. It's a total joke, especially considering that you get asked show-me-tell-me questions at the practical test anyway!

You can in fact fail all the motorcycle specific questions and still pass your "motorcycle theory"...
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MCW
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PostPosted: 15:15 - 22 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The more experienced you are, the harder the test. Sad
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map
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PostPosted: 15:22 - 22 Jul 2013    Post subject: Re: Hazard Perception Test... Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
There are two or three motorcycle specific multiple choice questions, the rest is identical. It's a total joke, especially considering that you get asked show-me-tell-me questions at the practical test anyway!

You can in fact fail all the motorcycle specific questions and still pass your "motorcycle theory"...

Which is why separate theory tests is a scam and just an excuse to raise more money. One theory test and you should be entitled to use it for car and bike.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 22 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1
If they included bike related questions on the car theory at least new cagers would have some idea of the dangers we face.

Let's take that idea to the next level, instead of having separate bike and car entitlements why not just insist you have to reach a minimum standard on both types of vehicle to get a licence?
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JP7
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 27 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCW wrote:
The more experienced you are, the harder the test. Sad

I agree with this. I've been driving a number of years and am an IAM member for cars, yet I failed the hazard perception test the first time I took it for my bike theory. It said I was cheating because I kept clicking too early.

Apparently, the DSA don't consider something to be a hazard until it's about to bite you on the backside. If you are a remotely experienced driver, then the car with its reverse lights on, about to back out of a driveway, is a hazard. At that moment. Not when it's reversed out. Or the child standing near the road with a ball... that's a hazard too. Surely it's too late to click when the child is going over your bonnet?

The second time I took the test I waited until the last possible moment to click. And passed. Go figure.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 27 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's just a computer game, and like any other computer game if you practice it enough you'll beat it.
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madness1802
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 27 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I only done mine last week and I have to say....what a waste of my time Smile Agreed with all of the above, it IS the same and I did mine 5 years ago for car....
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Efes123
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PostPosted: 06:19 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
JP7 wrote:
Apparently, the DSA don't consider something to be a hazard until it's about to bite you on the backside. If you are a remotely experienced driver, then the car with its reverse lights on, about to back out of a driveway, is a hazard. At that moment. Not when it's reversed out. Or the child standing near the road with a ball... that's a hazard too. Surely it's too late to click when the child is going over your bonnet?

The second time I took the test I waited until the last possible moment to click. And passed. Go figure.


Actually your examples aren't hazards, they're potential hazards. They don't become hazards until they will cause you to take action. IIRC one of the clips is someone running for their bus, which is on the other side of the road. Until they actually step onto the road they're just a potential hazard. When they step onto the road then they become a hazard, rather than when they are flying over your bonnet Very Happy At least, this is the DVLA definition of a hazard. I'd probably take some action, such as slowing slightly, for either of your examples. And totally agree, it's a money making scam.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 06:36 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The way that the DSA appears to have set it up is for the new young driver who relies on reaction to something once it gas happened instead of like the older driver who sees the potential of a situation before it happens.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 08:30 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's the same HPT for a HGV licence too, although the theory test has some truck-based questions and a higher pass requirement.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Efes123 wrote:
Actually your examples aren't hazards, they're potential hazards. They don't become hazards until they will cause you to take action.

Which gives me rageface, because it sets the standard depressingly low. It should be a test of hazard anticipation.

One of the practice clips has a van approaching from a hillbilly side road, with the camera car barrelling towards it. I was literally[*] squirming in my rocking chair, muttering "Slow down, move to the middle of the road, you chump." The hazard was blindingly obvious from the moment the van is first visible, it's risible (and miserable) that you're "supposed" to wait until it starts to pull out before "noticing" it. Mad

They're currentl re-doing hazard perception with CGI. Given that they'll bung millions to some minister's brother-in-law, I'd really hope for something a bit more interactive than the current potato-camera clips. Perhaps even choose-your-own-adventure stylee, where if you anticipate, you get a clear drive, and if you stuff it up you get a biker over your virtual bonnet.

[*] In the literal sense of literally.
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a complete joke that uses outdated technology.

You may well end up noticing and clicking for the hazard before the computer programme even says there is a hazard. So you need to leave a half second gap and then click again just incase.

It's not difficult, it's just a bit of a joke. Thumbs Up
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree that it is a joke...

But the format they use is to maximise profits and minimise costs a limitation of the technology.


I think really it should be a written test, where you're shown a clip and like all good exams as long as you can justify your point of view then you get the marks. You can get long written exams for IELTS marked for £2 a pop. (Takes 10-15 minutes so you can potentially earn £12/h but will drive you spare).


Hell if I were to take it today I would probably fail, as I consider gangsters with UZIs to be hazards (like you see in some nasty places in Bradford).


The irony is that the actual driving bit of a driving test is a hazard perception test live anyway!
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Efes123
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="fatpies"I think really it should be a written test, where you're shown a clip and like all good exams as long as you can justify your point of view then you get the marks. You can get long written exams for IELTS marked for £2 a pop. (Takes 10-15 minutes so you can potentially earn £12/h but will drive you spare).[/quote]

Ah but then they'd have to charge for the time it takes to mark the tests, and the cost would probably rocket up to £150 Evil or Very Mad
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Efes123 wrote:
Ah but then they'd have to charge for the time it takes to mark the tests, and the cost would probably rocket up to £150 Evil or Very Mad




Sure sure, the IELTS test mentioned above costs £130. It has 4 components and takes just under 3 hours.

2 of those tests actually require a qualified IELTS examiner to be present and to participate in the process and grade the candidate there and then.

The cheapest part is the written test, where they pay people to mark them £2 per paper.


Since my version would not require a qualified person to examine you on the day and it would be reviewing written papers only. I doubt they could justify a £150 test fee.
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Efes123
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
fatpies wrote:
I doubt they could justify a £150 test fee.


We are talking about the DVLA aren't we? When have they ever justified anything, and come to that, when has anything from them made any sense Laughing
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JP7
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Efes123 wrote:
Actually your examples aren't hazards, they're potential hazards. They don't become hazards until they will cause you to take action.

That's coming down to semantics really. I agree there is a distinction between the two, but as you say yourself, you'd already be reacting to the two examples before they actually become a real problem. Which is exactly why I feel the hazard perception test is quite poor. It should be encouraging people to understand how to anticipate and react to hazards properly, not wait until it all goes wrong to react. Better training on this point might make a dent in the 16-24 collision rates.
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Efes123
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
JP7 wrote:
That's coming down to semantics really.
Not if you want to pass the test. The DVLA does bang on about the difference between potential and actual, and the test asks you to click on actual hazards.


JP7 wrote:
I agree there is a distinction between the two, but as you say yourself, you'd already be reacting to the two examples before they actually become a real problem. Which is exactly why I feel the hazard perception test is quite poor. It should be encouraging people to understand how to anticipate and react to hazards properly, not wait until it all goes wrong to react. Better training on this point might make a dent in the 16-24 collision rates.


Yep, agree, it's a bloody stupid way of testing/training. Hopefully the new CGI one will be better.
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AyrshireBiker
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
One of the practice clips has a van approaching from a hillbilly side road, with the camera car barrelling towards it. I was literally[*] squirming in my rocking chair, muttering "Slow down, move to the middle of the road, you chump." The hazard was blindingly obvious from the moment the van is first visible, it's risible (and miserable) that you're "supposed" to wait until it starts to pull out before "noticing" it. Mad


This is a fairly inaccurate summary, and I think the reason people miss some of the point of the clips. The DSA talk about the developing hazard... In this clip, the scoring window, from 5 down to 1 begins as soon as the van comes into view. As soon as you see that roof over the hedge, you click that's the 5 zone. When the hazard actually causes you to take action, that you down to 2 or 1. So there is plenty of scope to score quite highly if you identify the hazards early. If you wait until the van is in front of you, that's you 1 or even zero.
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Efes123
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
AyrshireBiker wrote:
This is a fairly inaccurate summary, and I think the reason people miss some of the point of the clips. The DSA talk about the developing hazard... In this clip, the scoring window, from 5 down to 1 begins as soon as the van comes into view. As soon as you see that roof over the hedge, you click that's the 5 zone. When the hazard actually causes you to take action, that you down to 2 or 1. So there is plenty of scope to score quite highly if you identify the hazards early. If you wait until the van is in front of you, that's you 1 or even zero.


Where did you get this information?
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Efes123
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 28 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
AyrshireBiker wrote:
This is a fairly inaccurate summary, and I think the reason people miss some of the point of the clips. The DSA talk about the developing hazard... In this clip, the scoring window, from 5 down to 1 begins as soon as the van comes into view. As soon as you see that roof over the hedge, you click that's the 5 zone. When the hazard actually causes you to take action, that you down to 2 or 1. So there is plenty of scope to score quite highly if you identify the hazards early. If you wait until the van is in front of you, that's you 1 or even zero.


Actually, thinking about this, I completely disagree. In real life we all react to potential hazards, or should do, and that's what makes this so difficult to understand.

What hazard is developing at the point of you first seeing a van? None is the answer, it's just a van traveling along the road. Yes, there's a potential, if he doesn't stop, or overshoots at a junction. Or maybe if he was traveling at excessive speed. The thing is that at that exact point its not doing anything wrong, it might well stop being a potential hazard at any point. It's only because you know what's going to happen that you think that you should start clicking. And TBH so you should in the test, click slowly once every couple of seconds, just to make sure you catch the start of the window.

The moment the van starts to do something that may cause you to have to change your riding/driving, then that's when the hazard starts to develop. the bold bit is important, it's not when you might, or even when common sense tells you you should, but when you have to in order to avoid an accident.

Unfortunately, the test has no bearing on real life, so you have to practice a bad form in order to pass.
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