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| Flip |
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 Flip Super Spammer

Joined: 28 Feb 2004 Karma :  
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| Craggles |
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 Craggles Traffic Copper

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| Adam_P |
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 Adam_P World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 10:35 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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After seeing a racing driver have his open face helmet come off when in a sizable shunt several years ago I have to ask myself the same question too. His open face slid forwards and with no chin bar to stop it carrying on it slid off his head, as the rally car he was passenger in was rolling over and over. Swore he'd never wear an open face helmet ever again, and he hasn't as far as I know.
Also, after seeing the horric picture of the biker (who I assume was wearing an open face helmet) on rotton.com a few years ago, I'd never go near one myself. ____________________ Colin McRae MBE 1968 - 2007 RIP
Orwell Rolls in his Grave
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| Marc_Buck |
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 Marc_Buck Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 31 May 2004 Karma :  
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| Robin |
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 Robin Scooby Slapper

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 11:14 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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I own, and wear a cheap £25 open faced lid/
Why??
Because I fcuking well have to.
At times I'd rather not wear a helmet at all. I know all of the arguments for their use, and most of the time I'm more than happy to wear a £250 full face, along with all my leathers etc, but there are times when I decide to take the risk, it's my face, my head, my brain, so surely it should be my decision as to wether or not I protect it.
As already said, sometimes I want to ride with the wind in my hair, but since 1973 when some safety gurus in a nanny state decided with minimal research and evidence that compulsory helmets would save lives I now have to wear a helmet or become a criminal and a minimal openface is the only way I can get close to doing what I want to do.
I am not anti-helmet, they do save lives in certian circumstances, and they do have their uses, but being forced to wear one is not on, freedom of choice is the issue hear, not safety. If we accept compulsory helmets, where will they stop???
We cannot give in to the culture of protecting people from themselves, life is risky, riding bikes is even more risky. We all make a decision to risk our lives every day by sitting on two wheels, surely it is up to us to decide how much more risk we are going to take by wearing (or not) the safety equipment that we deem necessary.
[rant mode off] |
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| flat spot |
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 flat spot World Chat Champion

Joined: 29 Aug 2003 Karma :     
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| mchaggis |
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 mchaggis World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 May 2004 Karma :    
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 Posted: 11:19 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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A full faced helmet had already saved my life once. Had it been open faced I would have done significant facial damage too. We already have accepted compulsory helmets as far as I know, and I'd much rather wear one anyway.
The reduction in wind noise, wind chill, not getting wet, as well as stopping me from splattering myself over the road are worth it to me. ____________________ I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush.  |
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| kasandrich |
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 kasandrich Trackday Trickster

Joined: 20 Oct 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 11:27 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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| Robin wrote: | I own, and wear a cheap £25 open faced lid/
Why??
Because I fcuking well have to.
[rant mode off] |
No you don't have to, you could wear a decent one and save your life or your face, or at least the NHS money.
Maybe we should allow riders with no protection, as long as they have insurance cover, to cover the hospital bills of putting their head and or face back together or cover the open infected flesh from gravel rash.....but why should the NHS foot the bill if someone doesn't want to wear the protection that could save them from injury? (and please don't bring up the subject of smokers, 'cos then you'll REALLY get me going).
Like it or not good, well fitting helmets do save lives and injury. Paralysis was mentioned by somene else, I also think its time someone came up with a decent neckbrace that did not restrict movement so it could be used on a bike, eg, fix the base of your helmet and go down inside your jacket. ____________________ Richard
CBR1000FM
Last edited by kasandrich on 11:37 - 10 Dec 2004; edited 1 time in total |
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| RickHolt |
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 RickHolt Traffic Copper

Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Karma :  
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| Robin |
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 Robin Scooby Slapper

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :     
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| Sparks! |
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 Sparks! Sir Tart-a-lot

Joined: 30 Aug 2003 Karma :   
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 Posted: 11:43 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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I hit a wall face first at 40mph, put me in hospital bit through my lips and bashed my teeth in as well as brusing, I was wearing a full face helmet, the front of the helmet split down the middle.
I hate to think what would have happened if I was wearing an open face lid. In fact I don't want to even consider it.
I will never wear an open face helmet ever. Plus they look stupid anyway  ____________________ Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes |
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| Robin |
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 Robin Scooby Slapper

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :     
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| NickD |
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 NickD World Chat Champion

Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Karma :     
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| mchaggis |
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 mchaggis World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 May 2004 Karma :    
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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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 Posted: 12:37 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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| kasandrich wrote: | Maybe we should allow riders with no protection, as long as they have insurance cover, to cover the hospital bills of putting their head and or face back together or cover the open infected flesh from gravel rash.....but why should the NHS foot the bill if someone doesn't want to wear the protection that could save them from injury? |
I have not accepted that helmets should be compulsory (although even if they were not I would still wear one 99% of the time), but the NHS picks up the tab for lots of things. Why should it pay out for the entirely voluntary requirement for maternity care? Why should it pay out for people injured doing any sport?
The difference in protection from wearing a full face heltmet to an open face helmet is nominal compared to the difference between having the same accident in a car (most of the time), so the logical next stage to your argument is to ban people from riding bikes.
A full face helmet can increase injuries under certain circumstances. They certainly weigh more which is likely to greatly increase the risk of a broken neck. A rigid chin bar can transfers shocks very effectively, again resulting in a broken neck rather than a broken jaw.
| kasandrich wrote: | Like it or not good, well fitting helmets do save lives and injury. |
No argument with that, but plenty of things save lives and injuries, but many of those would result in a life that on average would be slightly longer but feel far longer.
You could make an easy argument for making back protectors a legal requirement, but from what I have heard (and confirmed by TC) these can quite happily increase accident injuries, riding up, catching of the back of the riders helmet and pushing it forward violently resulting in (again) a broken neck.
| kasandrich wrote: | Paralysis was mentioned by somene else, I also think its time someone came up with a decent neckbrace that did not restrict movement so it could be used on a bike, eg, fix the base of your helmet and go down inside your jacket. |
Sounds like a good way of concentrating the stress in one place to ensure that the neck breaks.
It should be down to personal choice (and I think the same for seat belts as well). If we wanted to start charging for those people injured by not using a device that is perceived to reduce injuries then we would pretty much have to abandon almost all free medical treatment.
All the best
Keith ____________________ Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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| mchaggis |
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 mchaggis World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 May 2004 Karma :    
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 Posted: 13:00 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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The main thing to make sure of is that if you give people choice, that they then have no basis for compensation if they fail to make the better/ correct choice and wipe themselves out.
This is especially potent in the seatbelt situation. We'll let you refrain from wearing a seatbelt having informed you and educated you of the dangers of doing so, and if you die as a result of not wearing a seatbelt, then tough.
Children who haven't been educated as to the risks of not wearing a seatbelt are a different case though. You could of course argue that people should make an effort to learn and appreciate the risks without needing educating specifically anyway. ____________________ I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush.  |
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| Rob W |
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 Rob W World Chat Champion

Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Karma :  
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| Grubby |
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 Grubby Spanner Monkey

Joined: 15 Aug 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 13:19 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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You lot are a bunch of fuckin safety nazi's.
A few years back we (Motorcyclists) were campaigning for the right to wear lids if we wanted to, not because some faceless beaurocrat said we had to. Now we have sites like this that are giving the government ammunition to make us even "Safer" for our own protection. Don't blame anyone but yourselves when airbags & leg protectors become ompulsory along with full mandatory body armour, even if you are popping down to the chippy, officer. |
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| Lone-Wolf |
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 Lone-Wolf World Chat Champion

Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :   
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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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| stinkwheel |
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 stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :    
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 Posted: 13:44 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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I have and wear an open face helmet on occasion. It isn't even a kitemarked one (german army riot helmet) but the coppers wouldn't be able to tell by looking. Mainly because I want to thumb my nose at authority and if I am going to be made to wear a helmet when I don't want to it may as well look suitably riteous.
In an urban environment you get a much improved field of vision with an open helmet.
People of a lighter build would also be safer using a smaller, lighter open face helmet to prevent spinal injuries. In kart racing, you are not allowed to race in a full face helmet unless you are over 13 for this very reason.
I too am firmly against compulsion. I am not stupid, I know the risks of not wearing a helmet and it is my decision. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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 instigator Super Spammer

Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Karma :   
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 Posted: 13:46 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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| kasandrich |
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 kasandrich Trackday Trickster

Joined: 20 Oct 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 13:46 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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I've only ever been involved in one serious accident, it was about 20 years ago, I was a bit of a seatbelt rebel in the early years of it being compulsory, I used all the same satements you make Kickstart, about the accidents where seatbelts make injuries worse, etc.
....well I complied, and when I had my big accident, thank fcuk, I was wearing my seatbelt, and so was my wife!, if not I doubt we would be here now, so, so far I have lived nearly twice as long, thanks to the compulsory wearing of seatbelts, which I objected to! You won't catch me objecting now, and you won't catch me without a seatbelt on either!
I wear a full face helmet, m/c jacket with armour, m/c trousers with armour, m/c boots with shin protection, .........or I don't get on the bike, if i can't be bothered with the gear I jump in the car and just put my belt on, but I have seatbelt pretensioners, twin front airbags, side airbags, side impact beams, ABS, etc...............guess I'm just a wuss, eh? if I were a real man, I'd ride with no helmet, sunglasses, 'T' shirt, and shorts /trainers, and while am at it, I'll get the garage to disconnect all those airbags and stuff in the car, .....its all for wuss's, ain't it?
Good luck (you may need it)
Richard ____________________ Richard
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| NickD |
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 NickD World Chat Champion

Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 13:55 - 10 Dec 2004 Post subject: |
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Utter crap mate.
 ____________________ I was only doing what it said on my licence officer....
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| stryker |
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 stryker Brolly Dolly

Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Karma :  
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 21 years, 325 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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