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Music - why 4/4?

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D O G
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
Educate me, mofos.

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?

Don't we as umans gravitate to odd numbers - triple beatz, so why is the most influential cultural tool so apparently misaligned?

It was Kraftwerk wot set me off. Experimental, avant garde, yet slavishly sticking to 4/4, with the 16/32 beat shifts.

And a wun and a two and a wun two tree four...
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_Will_
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PostPosted: 00:28 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpB_40hYjXU

Laughing
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Marcg868
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PostPosted: 01:26 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can't beat a bit of four to the floor. Although some of the stuff that uses that beat pattern is crap. For example anything David Guetta produces or rips off.
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woodall57
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
6/8 is a good time sig Very Happy deadmau5 fml is done in that and its an edm track Thumbs Up seems 4/4 and has a triplet feel
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some of my favourite music isn't 4/4...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_FuWVInbqw - 8/8 & 5/8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QetV4uZqr6g - 9/8 & 7/8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7R7q1lSZfs - 3/4
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i.p.phrealy
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
^^^^ I agree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a76v4PdYBh0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XI1DD_vJuY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE8aP6jALyo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=famsw_uofcQ

slightly different musical style though. Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 01:27 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
D O G wrote:
Educate me, mofos.

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?

Don't we as umans gravitate to odd numbers - triple beatz, so why is the most influential cultural tool so apparently misaligned?.


SYNCOPATION

"Modern" music is not even or rythmic despite being technically in 4/4. The overwhelming majority of modern music has an off-beat melody.

You don't sing and play lead guitar in time with the drummer, the drums start, the melody follows three beats later.

That's why the bassist has his back to you. Look at the vocalist and you'll lose it because the lyrics and the bass are not on the same beat (with noteable exceptions, many of which involve Ritchie Blackmore).
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 01:31 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
bwfc4eva86 wrote:
You can't beat a bit of four to the floor. Although some of the stuff that uses that beat pattern is crap. For example anything David Guetta produces or rips off.

4/4 pays.

https://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/top-10-highest-paid-djs-in-2013/

and a little 7/8 didn't do too bad for pink floyd.
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metalangel
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PostPosted: 01:35 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM
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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 05:55 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
HRT wrote:


and a little 7/8 didn't do too bad for pink floyd.


No, but they're still shit regardless.

Thumbs Up
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 06:02 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't really get music terminology Confused
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
D O G wrote:
Educate me, mofos.

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?

Don't we as umans gravitate to odd numbers - triple beatz, so why is the most influential cultural tool so apparently misaligned?

It was Kraftwerk wot set me off. Experimental, avant garde, yet slavishly sticking to 4/4, with the 16/32 beat shifts.

And a wun and a two and a wun two tree four...


Yeah dunno - I think it's a relatively recent thing though. The waltz, 3:4 time, was pretty ubiquitous prior to the 20th century. There was also a theory that, further back, fives were the go-to time sig - because we have 5 fingers, so a simple rhythmic pattern would be a constant interval of each finger across a simple skin drum. Famous fives from modern stuff include e.g. Schiffrin's theme to Mission Impossible, and of course Take 5 by Brubeck. The melodies are so strong in each that you almost don't notice they're not in four until you start counting.

Anyway, maybe four time took hold with the emergence of the modern drum kit - via jazz and so forth. Cos with drummer's having four limbs in play - kick with right foot, hats left foot, hats also right hand and snare left hand. Fours seem the logical way to play?
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 09:43 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
mistergixer wrote:
HRT wrote:


and a little 7/8 didn't do too bad for pink floyd.


No, but they're still shit regardless.

Thumbs Up


PatGoD and the comp Relics are fucking ace. The rest - uh...meh?
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Fours seem the logical way to play?



I'm a rookie pianist, but 4 beats per bar, means that it fits in nicely with the whole, half, 1/4 1/8 1/16 1/32 1/64 notes so that all the notes add up to a whole.

Timing is one of my weakest points, the stuff I know off music memory can be played at well over 200bpm. Which means pieces at the start are always played better than the middle and end as I've gone over them more times.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
HT wrote:
bwfc4eva86 wrote:
You can't beat a bit of four to the floor. Although some of the stuff that uses that beat pattern is crap. For example anything David Guetta produces or rips off.

4/4 pays.

https://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/top-10-highest-paid-djs-in-2013/

and a little 7/8 didn't do too bad for pink floyd.


Fucking hell, Pauly D, some total no mark from that Jersey Shore program gets $11m per year. Crazy.


He's still better than Guetta, however! Laughing
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D O G
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
Some of my favourite music isn't 4/4...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_FuWVInbqw - 8/8 & 5/8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QetV4uZqr6g - 9/8 & 7/8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7R7q1lSZfs - 3/4


1st two I can get the time, but Golden Brown just fucks me (pardon the pun).
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was wrong, it's not 3/4. Still a fave song Smile

Quote:
"Golden Brown" is a waltzing, harpsichord-led ballad in a 6/8 and 7/8 time signature by The Stranglers. The instrumental bridges add an extra beat in every other measure, effectively producing a 13/8 time signature.


https://videosift.com/video/The-Stranglers-Golden-Brown
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Annabella
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
D O G wrote:

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?


Because we have two legs, two arms.
Strongest, weak, strong, weakest is easiest to walk to, dance to, nod our heads to.

You try walking in time to Take Five...




For geekery, the time signature is easily explained.

The top number is simply the number of beats in the bar (consider the start of each bar where the STRONG beat is - so if you want a strong beat every three notes, then go with 3 at the top, every other go for 2 (or 6/8 if you want a move 'driven' feeling)).

The bottom number is what type of note length the beat is.

4 is a crotchet, 2 is a semi-breve, 8 is a quaver.
Quite simply, using a crotchet as your 'base' note value it gives you the most options for notating faster and slower notes. If you start as 16 being your 'base' not (i.e. semi-quavers) anything *faster* than the beat of the music would just looks like a sneeze on the page. Aesthetically, shite to look at and impossible for a short-sighted geeky musician to read.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
Annabella wrote:


Because we have two legs, two arms.
Strongest, weak, strong, weakest is easiest to walk to, dance to, nod our heads to.


But as I already said the fact that we have four limbs pre-dates the dominance of four time - by about 194,900 years ago. Prior to that most folk music(s) made good use of three time, as have various forms of chamber and classical music. The modern and thus comparatively very recent dominance of four time seems to warrant further explanation.

Annabella wrote:
You try walking in time to Take Five...


Not a problem. Ditto for all music with a *constant* tempo. Difficulties in some kind of corresponding physical coordination only really emerge when the tempo of a piece makes abrupt and/or random BPM changes.
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SQL
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
Annabella wrote:
D O G wrote:

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?


Because we have two legs, two arms.
Strongest, weak, strong, weakest is easiest to walk to, dance to, nod our heads to.

You try walking in time to Take Five...




For geekery, the time signature is easily explained.

The top number is simply the number of beats in the bar (consider the start of each bar where the STRONG beat is - so if you want a strong beat every three notes, then go with 3 at the top, every other go for 2 (or 6/8 if you want a move 'driven' feeling)).

The bottom number is what type of note length the beat is.

4 is a crotchet, 2 is a semi-breve, 8 is a quaver.
Quite simply, using a crotchet as your 'base' note value it gives you the most options for notating faster and slower notes. If you start as 16 being your 'base' not (i.e. semi-quavers) anything *faster* than the beat of the music would just looks like a sneeze on the page. Aesthetically, shite to look at and impossible for a short-sighted geeky musician to read.

hmm quavers
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Entertwainer
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
what about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNdnOTvGbJQ
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
Annabella wrote:


Aesthetically, shite to look at and impossible for a short-sighted geeky musician to read.


you should see Chinese sheet music.

https://pic.guzheng.cn/qupu/popguzheng/qnzl-43haoxinfenshou.gif

Plus just to confuse it even more there is often a BPM number above the first bar to tell you how fast you should count. I can't play faster than allegro Without totally memorising a piece as my sight reading skill is poor.

Which is annoying because many modern pieces are presto! and above.
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carlosthejack...
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
i.p.phrealy wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XI1DD_vJuY



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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cause you look like a twat waltzing to techno and rock....
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the chihuahua wrote:
Cause you look like a twat waltzing to techno and rock....


What, you've never been totally pissed out your skull, doing some mad ballroom dancing piss take with a mate to some mad shit in the pit? You're missing out on some fun Very Happy
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