Massive headache with charging system

[MeatHelmet]

OK, the short version.

The bike (97 CBR600F) has not been holding it’s charge for a couple months now. I have changed the battery, and the r/r. Still wont hold it’s charge.

I charge it pretty much every night as the bike will only get about 30 miles before it dies/refuses to start.

I have checked the connector to the r/r, made sure the battery terminals are tight. All seem OK

I did some research on checking the entire system with a multimeter, but I am completely useless with the electrical side of things. I just don’t understand what the guides are telling me.

I tried putting the meter across the battery last night after riding home, was reading under 11v, I then left the meter connected and removed the +ive lead from the battery and the bike died. I know that on a car this shouldn't happen but not sure about a bike.

Could someone list (in lehman’s terms) anything I have overlooked?

Also, I read that checking the stator via the plug is a must, does the tank really have to come off the bike for that?? I have had the tank off before and had a huge problem re-attaching the fuel lines!

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I’m beginning to lose faith in my bike and really don’t want to!
____________________
Bike - 2003 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Ninja (A1P)

[P.]

If you've checked the battery and reg/rec, the stator would be next on my list.

[Pete.]

[The Artist]

Agree with both of the above.

Check voltage whilst at 5000rpm. If it is over 14v it is charging and you have something using the power all the time.

If the voltage does not rise when you run the engine, then possibly stator or wiring issue between the stator/reg.rec/battery.

[Pete.]

Or battery ground fault - as I found out to my dismay last year on the hard shoulder of the M25.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[J.M.]

Start by measuring the AC voltage from the stator and then go from there.

If the stator test returns good, you know it's a wiring issue.

If the stator test returns bad, you'll probably have to replace the stator.

I don't own the CBR600F so I can't comment on whether the tank has to come off or not to perform the test. I wouldn't have thought so though, unless the connector is sitting underneath the tank.

Get it tested and fixed as soon as possible however; the more you flatten your battery the more risk you run of killing it.
____________________
2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[Islander]

It could be one of two things. Either your battery isn't charging, or there's a drain that's discharging it.

Start with the basics. Check for loose connections in the charging circuit and battery first. Then use a multimeter to check the voltage at the battery terminals with the bike's engine running. At idle it should be around 12v and as you increase the revs towards 4-5k, the voltage should increase to around 14v. If it doesn't then you have a charging fault. If this is the case, check the output of the alternator (you can do this at the reg/rec input) - you should be seeing somewhere around 30v AC (remember to change the meter range from DC to AC) between pairs.

If the charging voltage is normal then you may have a current drain somewhere on the bike and this is where it becomes more difficult to identify. You'll need to connect the meter in line with one of the battery leads and this time use the current settings (Amps or I). You may also have to change the way the leads plug into the meter - read the instructions. Start with a high range and everything switched off - you shouldn't see any significant readings. Switch down to a lower range and repeat. Again, if everything is OK you shouldn't see any significant readings. If you do, then you'll have to start disconnecting things one at a time until you identify where the problem is - you can eliminate major systems by removing fuses.

Good luck!

[misscrabstick]

I believe these have form for rectifier/regulator issues, as others have said seems your bike is not charging the battery so all your riding is just sucking from the battery and nothing is getting put back, with your multimeter set to volts and red lead to battery + and black to battery -ve with the engine running at 2000rpm I would be expecting to see around 14-14.5 volts.

I would think your going to see nothing happening on the meter other than battery voltage ( around 12.5 if just off the battery charger), you are going to be needing to check as said already the regulator/rectifier/ stator/ wiring, if this is all too much then maybe just take a punt on it being the regulator and rectifier and trying a new one to see if the issue gets fixed.

[MeatHelmet]

Cheers for the replies people.

I got back from work, got the multimeter of the battery when bike was idling, it read 11.99v, I revved to 5k and it read 12.20v.

Is this a bad stator??
____________________
Bike - 2003 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Ninja (A1P)

[misscrabstick]

This is a charging system that is not working and with readings like that the battery will go flat.

[Pete.]

Unplug the Reg reg, you should be generating somewhere about 60Vac across the genny phases.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Bezzer]

[Fizzer Thou]

[Serendipity]

The stator recently went on my CBF1000. My symptoms were similar with the bike running fine until the battery was discharged, but the system wasn’t producing enough power to keep it charged.

I ran through all the tests in the Haynes trying to narrow down the problem component. The battery could hold a charge, a leak test was well within expected levels and the reg/rec seemed to the fine. Finally I tested the stator (via the plug under the side panel where it comes up to the reg/rec) and found that all 3 phases had connectivity to earth. They should have infinite resistance.

I gave the bike to Mr Honda. They initially made noises about bad batteries etc, but after they had a proper look they replaced the stator for free, under “extended” warranty. That’s on a 6 year old bike. Apparently it’s a known issue with the Biffers.

Just seems to be par for the course when you own a Honda. My CBR600F had similar a few years ago and that turned out to be a melted connector block. My FireBlade had the crumbling insulation problem on the stator and I had to replace that at my own cost.
____________________
2016 CBF1000F - Commuter heaven | 1994 CBR600FR - Awaiting defibrillation

[J.M.]

[thelamoth]

Sounds like the stator has shit itself, Honda stators= Catherine Wheels

[MeatHelmet]

Thanks for all the help with this guys.

Turns out the stator is shot.

Got a new one, but the Haynes manual is talking about removing any existing sealant and using fresh stuff, sound advice, but which sealant should I be using???

Also, is talks about using a locking compound on the bolts! Is this sound advice? If so, which should I be looking at??

Obviously, halfords will be my port of call, so recommendations for stuff from there would be best please.

Cheers again.
____________________
Bike - 2003 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Ninja (A1P)

[thelamoth]

A bit of Hylomar where the rubber grommet containing the wires fits the engine casing for the stator...dont go mad..

New casing gasket and just a drop of loctite 270 on the stator bolts.

[MeatHelmet]

Well, I located the cause of the problem!

https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/robbo49/D301B568-8803-464C-9D27-0DA89852A7CA-26970-0000046D5E45865E_zps34bc823f.jpg

Looks like the connector blocks have been sat frying for some time now!
____________________
Bike - 2003 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Ninja (A1P)

[Pete.]

Just cut them off and use a chocolate block. It doesn't matter what order the 3 phases are connected.

Bet you're glad you didn't have to order a new stator eh?
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[MeatHelmet]

The wires at the stator were fucked too mate!

Got one from wemoto for £80. Much cheaper than the Honda price of £300!
____________________
Bike - 2003 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Ninja (A1P)

[MeatHelmet]

Is it worth sourcing replacement plugs for this, or should i just use regular electrical blocks?
____________________
Bike - 2003 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Ninja (A1P)

[Bezzer]

It's a common Honda problem from that era, the best fix is to hardwire/solder the wires and not use any connector at all. It's no problem to undo it if you need a new reg/rec in the future....as you probably will.
____________________
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not quite so sure.

[CestrianX]

I enjoyed reading this thread. Great outcome.

If you decide to solder the wires together don't forget to use heat-shrink on each wire. I like to waterproof the wires with a little silicone grease too but probably no need to really.

[MeatHelmet]

Excellent, I'll just do that then, I can only assume that i would have to get them from honda anyway, so fuck that!
____________________
Bike - 2003 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Ninja (A1P)