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Stationary positioning.

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Hefty
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Stationary positioning. Reply with quote

Went for a little rideabout with a mate last week, were both at the same stage.. riding on L-plates, passed theory, looking to book mod 1 within a month or so.
Anyways, as we parked up he mentioned my stance while sat stationary.. I've always kept my right foot down at lights, crossings etc. Just feels natural being my stronger side etc. My mate reckons the correct position is left foot down, right foot over the rear brake.. a 'safety' position. He even went as far as sayin I could be penalised on my test for it?
This wasn't brought up on my CBT, & i've beein doing this since may so its kind of a tough habit to break, if true. What he's saying does make sense I guess, but is there any truth to this? Do I have to switch legs or don't it matter?
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nowhere.elysium
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right foot on the rear brake does mean that if you're shunted, you won't fly off into the distance. However, it also means that moving off from the lights is that little bit slower, if you've put your bike in neutral. It wouldn't hurt to do it while on your test, but I don't see it being a massive issue in day-to-day riding: I tend to keep the front brake on when at the lights, anyway.
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Hefty
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rarely put her in neutral at lights etc, & yeah ive always got the front brake covered so didn't think it was an issue. Its made me a bit paranoid now!
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told that right foot on the back brake meant you're slightly leaning to the left, so if shunted, that's the way the bike will fall - i.e. not out into the oncoming traffic.

However, now the red Ls are gone, it's both feet on the floor, bike in neutral, ball juggling.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was trained in the era that taught the "Hendon shuffle"*.

They have since changed their mind on that but I do still try to slow and stop the last 5mph using the rear brake and keep on it while stationary.

Lets you drop right into controlled "slow riding" mode if you're in stop-start traffic too. This is very useful if you're on a big and/or heavily laden bike.

* Stop on back brake, left foot down, apply front brake, right foot down, left foot up, find neutral, left foot down, right foot up, cover rear brake, release front brake... *lights change* Cover front brake, right foot down, left foot up, engage first, left foot down, right foot up, apply rear brake, release front brake, ride away.

At every set of lights. I shit you not.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the Hendon Shuffle. [UPDATE - damn, that'll learn me to waste time finding some history on it Wink]

You can read this 10 1/2 year old thread for some assertions that it's:

#1 Outdated advice (10 years ago!) from coppers doing it strictly by the book, and that DSA examiners don't give a stuff any more.

#2 A good habit to get into, especially when you get rear ended - and I submit that's become more likely in the past decade due to mobiles and mongs.

I was taught it casually on my CBT in 2008, didn't do it on my tests in 2010, passed OK, never got mentioned. I do occasionally do it now, if for no other reason than it's the only time the rear brake gets exercised.
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supZ
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was taught left foot down, right on brake.

never bothered with neutral, just held the clutch in.

i dare say on a full licence test you'd be picked up on it.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always left foot down for me, very rarely use neutral unless stuck in a tight queue/waiting at long-delay lights i know the sequencing of.
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yaigi
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was taught left foot down, right foot on the brake, and passed my test a year ago, so is fairly recent advise. However, I do recall a thread on here where someone had the same habit as you, did so in the test and wasn't penalised at all. I think it's a bit of a grey area, I do wonder if some testers are a bit funny about it and others aren't. I doubt you'd fail your test for it, maybe just a minor...
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Hefty
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

* Stop on back brake, left foot down, apply front brake, right foot down, left foot up, find neutral, left foot down, right foot up, cover rear brake, release front brake... *lights change* Cover front brake, right foot down, left foot up, engage first, left foot down, right foot up, apply rear brake, release front brake, ride away.

At every set of lights. I shit you not.


Might as well do the YMCA while im at it..

Cheers for the feedback, im gonna try and switch over on the way back from work tonight see how I get on. Dont wanna risk it affecting my chances of passing.
Would the examiner have any objections to me rarely using neutral while stationary as well? I usually just keep the clutch in. Or is this generally considered bad practice too?
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told to keep my foot on the rear brake as it keeps the light on and makes you more obvious to the clown behind you.

Wasn't told to keep it in gear though, but I did anyway.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure on the test-'rules' surrounding that but i would of thought going into neutral wouldn't be an issue, but perhaps keep your hand on the grip still so you can clutch in quickly when needed, maybe they could try say you were 'not in control' if you take your hands off and sit up on the bike etc if you get a nazi of an examiner Razz
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Lee wrote:


Might as well do the YMCA while im at it..


I should get someone to film me doing it sometime. It doesn't take as long as you'd think, I just do it on autopilot these days.
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yaigi
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Lee wrote:

Would the examiner have any objections to me rarely using neutral while stationary as well? I usually just keep the clutch in. Or is this generally considered bad practice too?


I definitely didn't use neutral on my test at all. It was never mentioned. That said, I'm not sure I came to a stop at any point for long enough to bother.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to do the Hendon, but man what a fucking faff it can be. Pull up, right foot down, select neutral with left foot, thus right foot up, then left foot down, followed by left up to select first, and therefore right foot down - then is it left foot back down and right foot up, prior to one final left foot up movement before finally pulling away?? Sometimes I just can't be arsed with it and do whatever I feel like - being the subversive non-conformist that I so righteously am at heart, I get a frisson of excitement at such anti-authoritarian "devil may care" footwork. On one such occasion, I remember an old man - who was making his way over a zebra crossing - noticing my improvised, sloppy routine and raising his walking stick and waving it in disapproval. Suffice to say I shook my helmeted head and snubbed him by riding away with nary a backward glance (excluding a cursory shoulder check, that is).
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sidewinder
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bike in first gear clutch in.right foot on brake and about 1/2 a cars length from the car in front...gives you a bit of safety room and enables you to take action if you think the car behind or in front is going to do something stupid roll back or not stop Very Happy
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sidewinder
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bike in first gear clutch in.right foot on brake and about 1/2 a cars length from the car in front...gives you a bit of safety room and enables you to take action if you think the car behind or in front is going to do something stupid roll back or not stop Very Happy
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lukamon
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I always put my right foot down, so ready to go into first and away.

I did my test 2 weeks ago (DAS) and neither my instructor nor mod 1 or mod 2 examiners mentioned it at all Thumbs Up
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Mario_Kempes
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was taught that under 10mph just to use the back brake. Think it's a decent habit.

Because of that I always naturally stand with my foot on the brake.
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metalangel
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Left foot down, right on brake... only neutral if the light has just turned red. Otherwise it's up to you if you think it's due to go green.

Leave a decent amount of space between you and the car in front. For one reason, in case the guy in front stalls, you have space to get around him. For another, in case you spot some mong coming up behind you at high speed, you have room to move up and/or escape.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

We teach (like that, we teach lol) Rest or Safety position. Right foot on rear brake and left foot down.

Only time you will be in neutral is when you are getting off the bike. At lights, just before you stop, tap down into first and then rest or safety and keep the clutch in until you pull away.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I think that's what I was taught too - but I do remember once being "caught" doing the shuffle on a lesson, and sitting there in neutral, etc. and being told on that particular occasion it was acceptable because the lights took ages to change. The implication being that - at any other time - it was preferable to stay in gear with clutch in (and left foot down). As an old "cager" kinda feels wrong to me though, and I tend to get into neutral and off the clutch when I can - although I'll usually stay in gear w/ clutch in if it makes for a quicker pull away. *shrugs*
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lihp
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep right foot on brake with left down but tend to stay in 1st gear
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 19:41 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Lee wrote:

Would the examiner have any objections to me rarely using neutral while stationary as well?


I doubt he would notice...my examiner was in a car due to the weather (very cold and pissing it down with rain)....and he wouldn't have known if I was in gear or not at lights.

All they are looking for is you to be a safe and legal rider. As long as you arent a danger to yourself or any other road user then you will pass....and he won't give a shit what dance you do with the clutch, brake and gears.
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