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Insurance Fraud?

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sabian92
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Joined: 21 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Insurance Fraud? Reply with quote
Hey,

I did a bad thing apparently, according to the phone monkey at MCE I've just had a pleasant chat with (!).

I applied for my provisional in 2009 and passed my car entitlement in March 2010 (not that it matters). Currently phoning insurers for quotes and told them I got my provisional in 2009 (which I did), and passed my CBT in August this year. This set him off on a "You can't have had your provisional that long, you only passed last month therefore I am terminating this call on the grounds of you attempting to commit insurance fraud, goodbye" and that was that.

Surely, a provisional is a provisional for a car *and* a bike, and it doesn't matter if you pass your CBT on a different date, the original date is still valid?

Am I on some sort of insurance shit-list for fraud now? Shocked

inb4 MCE are cunts Laughing
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
MC wrote:
Gotta say I found it a little vague when getting insurance quotes, so put down from the date of my CBT. Some companies ask how long you've been riding for, I assume this has more to do with when you did your CBT (unless they ask for continuous riding)?

Think this is why eBike refuse to give me online quotes now, I always used to put the date I got my provisional (as I hadn't done my CBT), then when getting insurance for my bike put down the CBT date & they refused to give me a quote (and have done ever since).


The issue I have is that there's no proper explanation - as if they want you to make a cock of it then they can go "Ha, no insurance for you!" when you have to claim.

Should I go for the provisional date or the CBT date? On Compare the market it asks for type of motorcycle licence (which is provisional), if I've passed CBT (Yes) and how long I've held the licence for. A CBT isn't a licence, it only validates the entitlement on said provisional so surely it's from the original date, not the CBT pass date? It asks for "years continuously insured as a rider" but not "years continuously riding".
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lihp
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Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Re: Insurance Fraud? Reply with quote
sabian92 wrote:
Hey,

I did a bad thing apparently, according to the phone monkey at MCE I've just had a pleasant chat with (!).

I applied for my provisional in 2009 and passed my car entitlement in March 2010 (not that it matters). Currently phoning insurers for quotes and told them I got my provisional in 2009 (which I did), and passed my CBT in August this year. This set him off on a "You can't have had your provisional that long, you only passed last month therefore I am terminating this call on the grounds of you attempting to commit insurance fraud, goodbye" and that was that.

Surely, a provisional is a provisional for a car *and* a bike, and it doesn't matter if you pass your CBT on a different date, the original date is still valid?

Am I on some sort of insurance shit-list for fraud now? Shocked

inb4 MCE are cunts Laughing


CBT validates provisional entitlement.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The one I'm sure gets lots of people is "How long have you had your full licence for?" A seemingly simple question, I passed my test on 27th May 2007. But I was restricted to 33bhp for two years so according to the insurance I have only had my full licence since 2009.

I unknowingly lied to my insurers for 3 years before I was pulled up on it Rolling Eyes
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sabian92
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Joined: 21 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Re: Insurance Fraud? Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
sabian92 wrote:
Hey,

I did a bad thing apparently, according to the phone monkey at MCE I've just had a pleasant chat with (!).

I applied for my provisional in 2009 and passed my car entitlement in March 2010 (not that it matters). Currently phoning insurers for quotes and told them I got my provisional in 2009 (which I did), and passed my CBT in August this year. This set him off on a "You can't have had your provisional that long, you only passed last month therefore I am terminating this call on the grounds of you attempting to commit insurance fraud, goodbye" and that was that.

Surely, a provisional is a provisional for a car *and* a bike, and it doesn't matter if you pass your CBT on a different date, the original date is still valid?

Am I on some sort of insurance shit-list for fraud now? Shocked

inb4 MCE are cunts Laughing


CBT validates provisional entitlement.


So the time before the CBT has no bearing on how long I've held a provisional for?
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lihp
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not for a provisional motorcycle as it is not a validated provisional.
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
Not for a provisional motorcycle as it is not a validated provisional.


Fair enough, wish the dickhead on the phone explained that rather than getting his hump up about fraud and hanging up on me.

Thumbs Up Cheers.
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
sabian92 wrote:
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
Not for a provisional motorcycle as it is not a validated provisional.


Fair enough, wish the dickhead on the phone explained that rather than getting his hump up about fraud and hanging up on me.

Thumbs Up Cheers.


Because he didn't really know. And it was probably time for his fag break.
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
J4mes wrote:


Because he didn't really know. And it was probably time for his fag break.


I've just called back and two different people said it's from the date you originally received your provisional... the fuck? Laughing

One also refused to go through quotes on the phone as they're valid only for 1 day. Funny that, I thought it was 28? Rolling Eyes
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Re: Insurance Fraud? Reply with quote
sabian92 wrote:
told them I got my provisional in 2009

What exactly were you asked?

Worth firing an email into [email protected], head it COMPLAINT.

Tell them that they're the one trying to form a contract of adhesion, and it's up to them to be very specific about what information they're asking for.
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Re: Insurance Fraud? Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
sabian92 wrote:
told them I got my provisional in 2009

What exactly were you asked?

Worth firing an email into [email protected], head it COMPLAINT.

Tell them that they're the one trying to form a contract of adhesion, and it's up to them to be very specific about what information they're asking for.


I did a quote online that asked when I did my CBT (5th of August this year) then how long I'd had my provisional. I put in 4 years (which as far as I'm concerned, is correct - I have had a provisional motorcycle licence since 2009, but I've had a car entitlement since 2010. The question is vague and if you take it literally, then I answered it correctly), and it came to £420 or so, TPFT. I rang them up, did an over the phone quote and he asked me when I passed my CBT (Not when I got my provisional, that wasn't mentioned at all) and the quote came up 200 quid more. I mentioned about the previous quote and gave him the reference number from whatever comparison site I used and he looked through and said "You've put you've had a provisional for 4 years when you've only had a CBT for a month, which is not possible. MCE doesn't accept fraudulent policy information and I'm terminating this call, goodbye", before I even had chance to explain.

Called back, two different people said it was from the original date of the provisional NOT from the CBT pass date so I'm going with that because it knocks £200 off my quote Laughing

I will e-mail them though. I didn't really want to use them as they get a bad rap but they're the cheapest by miles (next quote is over £600, and for a 125 they can bugger off).

Last edited by sabian92 on 20:55 - 13 Sep 2013; edited 1 time in total
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Technically, if you got your provisional bike license long enough ago, and then passed your car test, you can still be riding on a provisional without taking CBT withoput takeing any 1 year breaks.

Mind you, you'd need to be in your 40's....
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the chihuahua wrote:
Technically, if you got your provisional bike license long enough ago, and then passed your car test, you can still be riding on a provisional without taking CBT withoput takeing any 1 year breaks.

Mind you, you'd need to be in your 40's....


Don't think so, I've had a provisional motorcycle licence since 1983, but still had to do cbt before I could start riding three or so years ago.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Andy_Pagin wrote:

Don't think so, I've had a provisional motorcycle licence since 1983, but still had to do cbt before I could start riding three or so years ago.


And there's your answer...
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 21:12 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the chihuahua wrote:
Technically, if you got your provisional bike license long enough ago, and then passed your car test, you can still be riding on a provisional without taking CBT withoput takeing any 1 year breaks.

Mind you, you'd need to be in your 40's....


Only for mopeds I think (as the car licence would have given you a full moped licence).

All the best

Keith
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Nobby the chihuahua wrote:
Technically, if you got your provisional bike license long enough ago, and then passed your car test, you can still be riding on a provisional without taking CBT withoput takeing any 1 year breaks.

Mind you, you'd need to be in your 40's....


Only for mopeds I think (as the car licence would have given you a full moped licence).

All the best

Keith


And a car licence in the late 80's also gave you un-ending provisional for a bike license if you applied for a prov bike licence.

Otherwise you lost entitlement for a year after every second year of entitlement.

I was riding round quite legitimately for 3 years after CBT came in on a provisional without doing CBT. Only reason I did CBT was to take my test.
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sent them this. Not expecting a reply but in the future I'm using the date I got my provisional, not the date I passed my CBT.

Quote:
Dear Sir/Madam,

This afternoon (13/09/13) I called your call centre to obtain a quote for a motorcycle I'm looking at purchasing. I used your website to obtain a quote of £422 - I entered my details correctly, including having a provisional licence for 4 years and passing my CBT entitlement on the 5th of August 2013.

I went through the motions of getting a second quote to see if a human being could better it. I was asked when I passed my CBT, to which I answered the above date, but was not asked when I had received my provisional licence. This ended up being £200 more expensive, and let the customer service adviser (Sam, I believe his name was) that I had obtained a much cheaper quote. I relayed the reference number to which he looked through the information and told me with a curt and rude tone that I had put the wrong length of time for having a provisional licence and therefore was terminating the call on the grounds of me attempting to fraudulently obtain motorcycle insurance.

I called back and spoke to 2 other customer service agents (with substantially better manners, might I add) who confirmed I was in fact correct and the date I passed my CBT was irrelevant as they expire every two years, so the date of receiving my provisional is the one that counts.

I am not in the business of fraud and would prefer not to be treated as such - I was not given time to explain myself before being hung up on (and having worked in a call centre for a large retail firm, this is rule number one - even if you're having abuse hurled at you, you do NOT hang up on a customer, potential or not). I also got the distinct impression that it was implied I was attempting to commit a criminal offence.

In any case, if you are in the business of making money from something that is legally required, at least make it clear WHAT you require rather than leaving up to an uninformed individual to take a stab at it and hope it doesn't end up in their insurance being revoked if they need to claim. Insurance companies charge obscene amounts of money for the privilege so surely it isn't that difficult to design a website that has a decent enough help function, or word questions in such a way that they don't require an English Language degree to decode?

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ninja_butler
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
The one I'm sure gets lots of people is "How long have you had your full licence for?" A seemingly simple question, I passed my test on 27th May 2007. But I was restricted to 33bhp for two years so according to the insurance I have only had my full licence since 2009.

I unknowingly lied to my insurers for 3 years before I was pulled up on it Rolling Eyes


The official description of a motorcycle license may have changed now, but I remember a couple of years ago there was a lot of confusion over what constituted a full license because at the time for insurance purposes there was no legal distinction between a category A endorsement and a category A2 endorsement; they were both "full" licenses.
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
ninja_butler wrote:

The official description of a motorcycle license may have changed now, but I remember a couple of years ago there was a lot of confusion over what constituted a full license because at the time for insurance purposes there was no legal distinction between a category A endorsement and a category A2 endorsement; they were both "full" licenses.


They still are, aren't they? You can ride without L plates etc on an A2 as long as you're below 47HP.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I got screwed/shouted at/ threatened when I went to get car insurance.

They asked when I got a full licence - I got a full licence (FOR MY BIKE) in 1977. I got one for my car in 2007 (yes I never drove a car before that Dance! )

I got a quote, accepted it etc. A few months later -

You have commited an offence, you haven't had a full licence etc. Yes I have - not a car - you didn't ask that, you asked for a full licence.

etc. etc.

I actually won, except for some reason my car premiums tripled the next year Crying or Very sad
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lihp
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
An interesting point.

If you're buying car insurance and it asks how long you have had a full license, I would assume it is asking for a full car license.

We are arguing based on their exact wording of their questions, and calling it a success.

Yet when they refuse to pay out over a direct and literal interpretation of their t&c then all of a sudden it's wrong?
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 13 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
An interesting point.

If you're buying car insurance and it asks how long you have had a full license, I would assume it is asking for a full car license.

We are arguing based on their exact wording of their questions, and calling it a success.

Yet when they refuse to pay out over a direct and literal interpretation of their t&c then all of a sudden it's wrong?


Exactly, yet they go and throw their toys out of the pram when you play by their rules.

It asked me for when I got my provisional, and when I passed my CBT. Didn't say they were related in anyway yet I got "hurr durr ur a fraud" from some 18 year old phone gimp in a call centre.

I swear they make it deliberately vague just to trip you up, then they have the balls to say "oh, premiums go up due to uninsured drivers!" when in fact it's them dickheads making it so difficult half of us are technically uninsured without knowing it!

Always makes me wonder - some ask how many years you've been continuously riding - I could put 4 years. Says nothing about it having to be a motorcycle does it?

Laughing Middle Finger
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 00:42 - 14 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the chihuahua wrote:

And a car licence in the late 80's also gave you un-ending provisional for a bike license if you applied for a prov bike licence.


From memory I don't believe that legally that was the case, although they did a poor job of publicising it. The provisional licence might have not had a time limit but think it did require a CBT to be validated.

Can't find the legislation either way at the moment though

All the best

Keith
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tom_m
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Joined: 18 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 03:00 - 14 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good old MCE, i wont be re-insuring with them at renewal time in march. Their advisors seem to have a habit of telling porkies. I insured my ybr with them through confused.com which stated that on my TPO policy i have cover for riding other bikes, which i questioned over the phone to be told yes i do have it included in my policy, (weird for TPO cover i thought).
Ybr went off the road for a few days (new chain/sprockets, tyres, valve clearances), so used my old mans gsxr 750 srad to get to and from work for the week.
Checked policy documents when they arrived and no riders policy, telephoned them to be told that its impossible to have been given it on a TPO policy. By this time im tied into 12 months policy with them, complaint emailed but no reply as of yet (6 months later).

TLDR: Mce - about as useful as a chocolate ashtray.
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