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Big name Japanese or cheap Chinese for learner? Vintage/Mod

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Grumpy Joe
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 18 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 18 Sep 2013    Post subject: Big name Japanese or cheap Chinese for learner? Vintage/Mod Reply with quote
Hi everybody, I'm taking my CBT next week and would like a bit of advice on choice of 125cc bike to purchase afterwards.

I'm a total novice when it comes to bikes so as you can imagine I don't want to buy something that is rubbish and stops half way through a journey. I've been watching ebay and gumtree for a decent bike and I wanted to know whether people thought a big name make such as Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha or Kawasaki would be better for my needs rather than a cheaper Chinese make like Sinnis or TMEC? I've read mixed things about Chinese bikes, mostly bad but some good.

I'm wanting to use the bike to get to and from work (approx 200 miles a week) and possibly off road at the weekend and like everybody else I don't want to spend that much, ideally under £1000. But this is the thing, I've seen some early 80's Honda's (between £500-£900) and they appear ok but what are they going to be like for repairs? Am I going to have to pay through the nose for a vintage part that is hard to find or will most garages have a replacement part readily available and not at a vintage price?

Also if it's an 80's or 90's bike by a big name is it going to be a lot more to insure?

Additionally, I will be storing the bike outside off the street and I don't want to pay £2K for a modern Yamaha for it to get nicked if a cheaper Chinese bike would do what I need and then were to be nicked. Any advice is welcome, thank you in advance.
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gsmunn
Nova Slayer



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 18 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Having had both a YBR and a SYM. Go Japanese.

Think further down the line as well, Chinese bikes don't hold there value and yes, you get some good ones that will never let you down, but there is a good chance you will be stuck with a lemon and will be spending more time working on it than riding it.
____________________
CBT - 10/03/12 | Theory - 13/10/12 | Mod 1 - 12/09/13 | Mod 2 - 18/09/13
Riding: CB750
Gone: YBR125 / XS125
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Grumpy Joe
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 18 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 18 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah that's what I've been hearing about Chinese bikes, needle in a haystack finding a good one. Who do you think the best Japanese make is for 125's?
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gsmunn
Nova Slayer



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: 23:09 - 18 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm the wrong person to ask, I used YBR's as my test bikes and then got one based on that, the Honda looked a little too skinny for me, if that makes sense
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CBT - 10/03/12 | Theory - 13/10/12 | Mod 1 - 12/09/13 | Mod 2 - 18/09/13
Riding: CB750
Gone: YBR125 / XS125
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bikertomm
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 18 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Grumpy Joe wrote:
Yeah that's what I've been hearing about Chinese bikes, needle in a haystack finding a good one. Who do you think the best Japanese make is for 125's?


There's not really a best, just what is most suited to you.

Any Jap 125 will outlast the chinky versions, get a second hand one that looks half decent and enjoy cheap motoring at it's best.

Some bikes you should consider are the Honda CG, Yamaha YBR, and then forget about getting a cruiser style and get a Honda XR 125 Wink

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Grumpy Joe
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Joined: 18 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 18 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've seen a couple of Honda XR's and they do seem pretty good. Do you know whether it's difficult to get spare parts for anything pre-2000?
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BG5067
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: 07:52 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would recommend CG YBR or CBF

all great bikes
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Current. Kawasaki ZX9R.

Theory passed 17/01/2014. Mod 1 Passed 03/02/2014 (0 faults) Mod 2 10/02/2014 Passed (0 faults)
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 08:21 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jury's still out on the CBF. Way too many with fuel pump problems and shocking corrosion. I'm pretty convinced that the YBR can for all intents and purposes be had for half the price as a AJS Eco / Jianshe JS125.

How likely is the off-roading? Loads of people get offroad styles bikes that never see a hint of grass or gravel (Shifty).
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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BG5067
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: 08:29 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Jury's still out on the CBF. Way too many with fuel pump problems and shocking corrosion. I'm pretty convinced that the YBR can for all intents and purposes be had for half the price as a AJS Eco / Jianshe JS125.

How likely is the off-roading? Loads of people get offroad styles bikes that never see a hint of grass or gravel (Shifty).


True, I never had any problems and people I know never had them to.

My YBR suffered from faulse neutral all the time and would always slip into neutral from 2nd, Dealer said it can be a known problem in some YBR's.

But apart from that it is a great bike
____________________
Current. Kawasaki ZX9R.

Theory passed 17/01/2014. Mod 1 Passed 03/02/2014 (0 faults) Mod 2 10/02/2014 Passed (0 faults)
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Grumpy Joe wrote:
I've seen a couple of Honda XR's and they do seem pretty good. Do you know whether it's difficult to get spare parts for anything pre-2000?

You are applying a certain amount of what seems like 'Car-Driver' thinking to your reasoning.
Bikes is Bikes. They aren't cars. Things work a lot different in the biking world.
Cars are mass-market consumer products; like a dish-washer; built to do a mundane every day job; over a pretty predictable life span.
Bikes MAY be used as comuter transport; but more often are used as liesure equipment; and as such may see as much or as little use as a set of golf clubs, and thier value effected as much by how fasionable they are as how useful or how good.

Parts availability... pretty good example, especially for a Honda.

Honda have a deal with Dave Silver's Spares & the other independent parts sellers.

Deal is that they wont sell patern parts for Honda Machines under, I think it is seven or eight years old; if they will sell them at all; they are genuine Honda Spares, at Genuine Honda Spares prices.

Means buying a younger Honda you are probably actually going to be more limited to who you can go to for bits, and how cheap you might get'em.

Buy an older Honda; and you actually probably have far better choice and availability of genuine and pattern parts from more vendors, possibly more local; with better pricing.

I have a 20 year old 750, a thirty year old 1000 and a bunch of 125's, all Honda somewhere in the middle. Few service spares for any of them are very much hassle to get hold of; and even for the 1000, which had a model life of barely two years, during which time less than 1000 were imported to the UK, its incredible how much is still listed by Honda UK and or Dave Silvers, by way of Original parts.

But I think you may be jumping in at the middle here... looking at the bike; and like many a learner knowing not too much to begin with, focusing on that as the most obviouse 'thing' to fret about, and studying it in minute detail to find the 'perfect' bike, when actually, the bike, certainly the 125cc bike you start out with is not THAT important in the greater scheme of things, while finding the 'perfect' one for you, can be pretty much irrelevent.

See My Webby:-
I want to Ride a Motorbike - Where Do I start
Recommend Me a Learner-Bike!
And possibly:-
How do I get a Licence?

Because, really, putting the cart before the horse, THAT is the real place to start; if you wanted to get a car, its where you would HAVE to start; its merely a dint of legislative legacy we can still ride a 125cc bike on L's before passing a test, unsupervised; However, provisional entitlement you do that on is offered on 'provision' you intend taking tests at some point!

Its a 'Learner-Bike' to learn on. Not your once and forever cant change your mind or have anything else ever bike!

Just to learn on? Whats ought to really be important is how good it is at helping you learn to ride! How easy is it to handle? How much hassle is it likely to give you along the way, and, probably most importantly; WHEN you dun learning; how easy is it going to be to get shot of, and will you get a decent chunk of your money back for it!

£1000? Have to say that is not a generouse budget. And 'Cheap' is not what you pay, but how much everything costs. £1000 Chinky bike that costs you money to keep fixing, and you get £400 back for when you are done with it, ENT cheap compared to a £1500 Yamaha you have no hassle from, never need to spend a penny on over fuel, and can flog at when you are done for £1200.

And is that £1000 'just' for the bike? Have you run insurance quotes? Again, bike insurance works different to cars. If you want to go to and from work or college on it, you will probably have to opt 'in' to 'Commuting' clause on propsal; which like as not will hike quote a heck of a lot. Its not presumed that you will use a bike to get to work of college like it is if you bought a car. Pillion Cover? another opt in. will you carry passengers. Not presumed you will, as you would in a car.

Chinky bikes can be harder to insure, because they aren't the known quantity in teh databases that japanese branded bikes are; this can have significant influence on what ultimately works out 'Cheap'.

Bikes with knobly tyres; again; tend to get quoted a group or two higher than commuters; as they are more likely to get crashed and a heck of a lot more likely to get nicked.

Do you really need / want to go 'off-road'? How much off-road capability do you think you need? A humble commuter bike like a CG125 with the right tyres has a heck of a lot of off-road capability. You dont need something with suspension derived from designs for flying fantastics that have to survive 70mph leaps of 60ft table top ramps to ride accross a muddy field or farmers track!

And even if you do want to go that extreme... are you REALLY going to be tackling such stuff as a LEARNER?

KIT? Whats the budgeting for that? Helmet, gloves, boots, wet-weathers; riding gear?

SECURITY? Mentioned liklihood of dirt bike being tea-leafed. 125's and lightweights in general have high theft risk. Whats your security strategy? Parked at home and parked away from home? How much you reckon on spending on; locks, chains, alarms, men with big torches?

And.. the long view.... TRAINING & TESTS... 125 is learner bike... to learn on.. not be all and end all.

Great to get early mile experience and practice on; but what about some lessons so you actually get some stuff to practice?

And after that; the tests; what licence do you want/can you have?

And, beyond that.. if you get a licence, your pass-port to ALL biking has to offer... THEN what might you want in a bike?

First as a newly qualified rider... Then later, as you have more experience and can think about 'Dream- Machines'.

Looking that far ahead? Is the 125 you are sweating the small-stuff over now REALLY all that important?

Would you be better putting that nervouse energy, perhaps into boning up on the highway code, and booking a Theory test?

Taking whatever, moderately suitable, available and affordable 125 comes along in the forseeable, and getting on with it, and living with its minute imperfections, on basis that getting on with the job, ought not have it so long it matters much!

Just a bit of food for thought.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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BG5067
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Teflon. Out of interest how long does it take you to write all this?
____________________
Current. Kawasaki ZX9R.

Theory passed 17/01/2014. Mod 1 Passed 03/02/2014 (0 faults) Mod 2 10/02/2014 Passed (0 faults)
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
What did he do this time? Link to his site, then copy-pasta half of it anyway?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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BG5067
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah right makes sense lol
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Current. Kawasaki ZX9R.

Theory passed 17/01/2014. Mod 1 Passed 03/02/2014 (0 faults) Mod 2 10/02/2014 Passed (0 faults)
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garth
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
What did he do this time? Link to his site, then copy-pasta half of it anyway?


Pfft, all posts are hidden, it's bliss.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pity you're not closer to me - you could have a gander at me cb125, which is £700-ish.
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Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 19 Sep 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
garth wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
What did he do this time? Link to his site, then copy-pasta half of it anyway?

Pfft, all posts are hidden, it's bliss.

Thumbs Up I swear my electric bill has gone down since PLONKing him.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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