Removing the battery => What to do with red and black

[markhanoi83]

If I look at most wire schemes of bikes, I notice most systems do not run or are connected with the battery. Only wires that connect to the positive (red) and negative (black) wires are:

- The battery itself
- The startermotor (my bike is kick-start only)
- Some of the dashboard lights and neutral lights (as they should be functional before starting the engine)

Other then this, I can't see any connection that require a battery (except maybe too many watt's of power drain, causing the engine to run worse?))

Taking the above into consideration, my assumption is this:
If I remove the battery, disconnect/remove all of the red wires starting from the rectifier, and connecting all black wires to the green "frame earth", everything should work correctly without problems.


Is this a correct assumption, or are there things that I'm forgetting/missing here.

As far as I can tell, my only problem will be, that none of the lights (including neutral light) will run, until the engine is running. For me this is not an issue, as I always start motorbikes with the clutch disengaged. I also don't have any other anti-start measures such as clutch switch or side-stand switch.

[Rogerborg]

I'd suggest replacing your battery with a capacitor to smooth out the voltage, or you may find yourself replacing bulbs quite often.
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[defblade]

Unless your alternator is capable of producing enough voltage from very very low revs to produce a spark at the plugs, your bike may not start at all. A high chance of cutting out every time the revs fall to idle, too.

Why would you want to take out the battery anyway?
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[Rogerborg]

[stinkwheel]

The answer is...

Depends.

Why not tell us what you're trying to do and to what bike?
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[markhanoi83]

Mostly just because "I can" and because if I don't need stuff on the bike, I rather remove it. Dont need to fix it or maintain it if you dont use it.

I'm rebuilding the wiring and other parts of the bike to make it rock-solid for long trips. The bike is a Honda GL 150, which is a one cylinder 150cc kick-start bike.

I live in Hanoi, Vietnam, and use the bike for many long distance trips. Finding yourself in the middle of nowhere outside Hanoi with only farmers around you, you are the only person available to fix the darn thing when it dies.

As the bike only uses Lights, brake light and blinkers (and maybe I will re-wire the Neutral, High beam and/or low fuel light), which are all non-functional when I start the bike (turn it off by switch).

So at the starting moment, nothing is connected or eating voltages. However, while driving, it might be an issue. I thought the regulator takes care of that kind of stuff, but I might be wrong?

So, if I take the battery out, what would be the main concerns? If I put in a weak battery, what is the difference? And if I wire in the battery, to what do I connect it? The red only to the rectifier and nothing else? And how about the black. Only to some of the parts as mentioned (neutral light, etc.), or do I connect it with the frame earth?


So as to what I want to do with it:
1) Make it run + lights + turning signals + horn + (maybe) some of the dashboard indicators Red (Fuel), Green (neutral).

After this is all done before coming Saturday (I hope), I will have a test-drive for a few hundred kilo-motors to test stuff. After this I probably will:

1) Change the seat size and height to better fit me + wife
2) Change steering bar if needed
3) Possibly change lights, adding Led lights to help with the electricity use and cleaning up the look
4) Add a removal luggage carrier for the long trips for me + wife
5) Clean up the look/dents/scratches and repaint the bike

[stinkwheel]

Tricky because I can't find a wiring diagram.

Many small hondas will "self excite" so they have a seperate coil which produces the spark. So in terms of running, your engine would run even if nothing else was working. If you can start it with the battery disconnected, this pretty much has to be the case.

The remainder of the wiring will have most likely been done in one of two ways.

1) The alternator charges the battery, everything is run off the battery. If you can normally turn the headlight on even with the engine off (when there is a charged battery), this is the type you have.

You COULD remove the battery in this case. The trouble is you will experience voltage spikes when you turn lights on and off as the regulator takes a little time to catch up with the changing demand on the charging system. The battery goes some way to damping this down. As Roger says, some people replace the battery with a big capacitor to do the same job.

2) The alternator charges the battery with part of the output and runs the headlights with another part. The warning lights, indicators and brake lights run off the battery. If the headlight would normally only work with the engine running. This is the type you have.

The lights will look after themselves and run on AC straight from the alternator (hence it being called "direct lighting") although they are usually pretty useless. They don't usually have a regulator as such on the battery. They rectify the power to DC but don't regulate it. Excess power is "damped" by the battery. If you remove the battery, it will pop all the bulbs (I have been there and done that). Even a poor or flat battery is fine, as long as it's there to act as a voltage sink.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[chris-red]

My old RXS would run without a battery, all the lights would run too, just not very bright.
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[Robby]

Vietnam. I understand Vietnam is one of those places where you get really heavy rain for long periods of time and some poor quality roads.

Heavy rain means taking it easy, so low revs. Bad roads have the same effect.

Combine taking it easy with heavy rain and low light, remove the battery, and then try to see where you're going.

I would suggest fitting a decent sealed battery that isn't going to randomly fail on you and will last a decade. It also means that in your situation of being stranded in the middle of nowhere due to mechanical failure, you have a reliable power source to provide some light.

[markhanoi83]

Seeing all the replies I might just put back the battery

I have it, but I know these things die over time. However, the bike is now running without it, so I will never have a battery-related brake down.


To answer your question, I things this bike is having it's lights turned off when the bike is not running, as it's a very small battery and an old bike. However, I never tested this prior to pulling out the battery.

I'm using an old 125cc honda CBF wiring diagram I found on this forum, to give me some inspiration on what to do with all the wires. Looking at that one, most things including the lights would run of the yellow/green AKA alternator wires and only the small stuff (dashboard, switches such as Neutral) run of the red/black connection.



But to get back to a simple question::
1- Can I connect the Battery minus to the frame, and connected all other earth connections of all system to the frame. Or would this give problems?
2 - I connect battery red with a fuse to the rectifier and from there to the "key-contact" and from there to the "left unit", to power all left-hand-controled systems when switched?

[The Shaggy D.A.]

If you can't find a wiring diagram for that particular bike, have a gander at Old Man Honda's collection for inspiration, there's some very basic looms there :-

https://oldmanhonda.com/MC/WiringDiagrams/
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