Hydraulic clutch, thoughts

[RhynoCZ]

Hello, I was looking around and found out that not many sports bikes have hydraulically operated clutch. What is actually the advantage of a hydraulic clutch? When I had NC27 I use to use only 2 fingers to pull the clutch in during the down shifting, now I have to use all four fingers of my hand and pull it quite far to the bar, because the hydraulically operated clutch on my ZX7R is not that ''fast/accurate''. My mate says that my clutch works as it should, so why did they choosed hydraulics over the cabel, that worked great on many bikes before and now?
I thought the hydraulically operated clutch was a treat for a rider, I mean that it was supposed to make using the clutch easier for his hand. But it sure is not, I get it, that ZX7R is a superbike and it's not meant to be easy to ride it, but why not just having the cabel there.

Yes, I'm bored, the season is over, so you can expect some other stupid topics coming
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[stinkwheel]

NC27 making about 55bhp

ZX7R making about 120-ish bhp.

All that power has to go through the clutch and the ZX7R is making roughly double. So it needs double the friction to transmit that power without slipping.

Couple of ways you could achieve that. One would be by making the clutch plates have a bigger surface area. They haven't done that.

Another way would be by pushing the plates together harder using stronger springs. This is what they do. Stronger springs take more effort to seperate.

I think you would find the clutch either very difficult to pull in or it would have an unreasonably long sweep if it was a cable operated one.

Be worth checking your clutch push-rod (at the sleve cylinder end) is clean, corrosion free and lubricated. Hydraulic clutches should be smooth. Also do you know when it last had the fluid changed? They often get neglected.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[RhynoCZ]

There are many motorcycles with more cc/hp/Nm and they use a cabel operated clutch.
The fluid in mine is brand new, the clutch also has brand new plates. When I say brand new I mean that it was done 2500km ago.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Fizzer Thou]

The clutch on my Exup is hydraulic,whereas it is cable operated on my R1.

I see it that the hydraulic clutch is self-adjusting and can be made to be light in my case.I fitted some Barnett heavy duty springs and a ZXR750R master cylinder together with a braided hose and is easily operated with the two fore fingers.I recently fitted a new slave cylinder seal kit and it feels even lighter now.

Check that the handlebar lever pivot bolt is clean and properly greased with bearing grease NOT copaslip.Also,as has been suggested,remove the clutch push rod and after cleaning,roll it on a sheet of glass or a window and make sure that it is straight.

Yamaha UK used to race a YZF750SP with a modified clutch lifter mechanism.They removed the hydraulics and fitted a cable system.
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Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[RhynoCZ]

The problem I have is, that when I use only 2 fingers, I don't even disengage the clutch. The lever has to go approx. 50% of it's way to disengage the clutch and I can't set the lever any better, I mean the 1-4 ring on the lever.
Standard, on NC27, it was about 20%, just stroke the lever with 2 fingers a bit and you can kick one gear down. I could even operate the clutch with only my index finger, but my forearm was in pain, so I used the middle one too.

The ZX7R's clutch works well, I was just curious what made Kawasaki decide to use hydraulics instead of the cabel. I like to have the friction zone at the top, so I don't have to pull the lever that much, but that's nothing you could change on a hydraulic operated clutch. I don't mind the force needed to operate it, I do mind that you can't set the friction zone.

EDIT: I'm gonna check mine, maybe there's something wrong.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[woo]

I could not get on with the hydraulic clutch on my TLR which is the only reason i got rid of the bike, i found it too on and off instead of gradual as the cable is.
it resulted in me stalling alot or accidentally wheeling the bike
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Elen sila lummen omentielvo!

[Walloper]

[Nope.]

The clutch on my ZX7R is feather light compared to the one on my GSXR 400.

I really like my hydraulic clutch, perhaps you should try another ZX7R and see if there is any difference?
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Former: Derbi GP1 50, Sachs XTC 125, Suzuki GSXR 400 GK73A, Kawasaki ZX7R, Suzuki DR250, Yamaha RD350
Current: 2011 Yamaha XT660Z Ténéré, 2003 Yamaha YZR-R1 5PW (In Build), 2009 Kawasaki ZZR1400

[stinkwheel]

Sounds like your clutch needs bleeding. Also tie the lever down overnight.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[pinkyfloyd]

I loved the hydraulic clutch on my Firestorm. The XJ6 has cable and I'm always paranoid about breaking the thing. I have had a few go on other bikes.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[RhynoCZ]

[sidewinder]

[RhynoCZ]

[rac3r]

All the Ducati's I've had have had hydraulic clutches. The Monster's were super light, the SF is heavy as fuck. Dry clutches suck
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

[stinkwheel]

[orac]

could the fact the op may just be a pussy have been over looked, a couple of people have said the clutch on my 400 is heavy - which its not by any stretch of the imagination.

dont find my mates duc to be that heavy either and i am not the strongest of people to be saying that
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[Walloper]

[RhynoCZ]

That could explain a lot of things, it's not like I've never ridden a motorcycle before.

The thing is, that when I use only 2 fingers to pull the clutch in, there's not enough room for the lever, so the clutch stays engaged. Call me whatever you want, but people here are not that though, we can't change laws of physics. If you don't push the rod far enough, the clutch won't get disengaged.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Slacker24seve...]

[Fizzer Thou]

I use only two fingers to pull the clutch lever in.Having ridden dirt bikes in enduros for quite a few years I am usually holding onto the bars of a machine which is moving around a lot.Having a light clutch is an absolute must while racing.This has carried over onto the road bikes and I run the R1 with a motocross lever

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Picture402R1clutch.jpg

I even shortened the standard hydraulic clutch lever on the KTM as that trapped my smaller fingers when pulled right in

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Nov2011Tim012.jpg

The cable clutch on the XR has a shorter lever and is still light

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Picture040.jpg

The ZXR750R master cylinder is a vast improvement over the standard Exup item.The engagement point on this setup is about halfway and only two fingers are needed to actuate this-unless I am in slow moving traffic

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Picture028.jpg

Many people have fitted shorter aftermarket levers and found the bikes easier to ride.I prefer a full length brake lever on the road bikes,but that is my preferance
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Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[Matt B]

The clutch on my ZX7R was light as a feather (like computid said), and I only ever used 2 fingers to operate it because it had RSV stubby levers. You can see the stumpy little buggers in the photo.

https://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w462/MattB70/Kawaski%20ZX7R%202000/IMGP0091_zps91a97a13.jpg

Maybe you should try a set of stubbies, I found they are more adjustable than standard levers.
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stinkwheel: He had an animated .gif of a cat performing fellatio. It's not socially acceptable. It can have real life adverse effects on other people.

[RhynoCZ]

I use only 2 fingers because when I down shifted on the NC27 I was normaly braking very hard and I was quite agressive. So I kind of developed this habit of 2 fingers on the lever in order to give myself a bit of confidence during the braking sections. Plus, I up shift through the clutch and behind the corners, under full throttle, the front end gets light, well, got on the short NC27, the ZX7R is rock solid, I had only one little tank slaper on the zxr while I went through a corner over some big bumps. I went through a corner over some big bumps. I hold the bars firmly but I've got loose arms, so I think there is no need for holding the left bar all the time, but I will anyway.

By the way, no short levers for me, I once nearly crashed my mates MZ 150, he's got short levers and when I looked back over the shoulder to check the traffic and then looked ahead and there was a car, I wanted to brake, but I couldn't get my fingers on that small lever for the first time, lucky me it was a slow bike and there was enough space for the ''second time'' emergency braking.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Islander]

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Surprised that you can't adjust the lever anymore. I'd be inclined to get some full length adjustables.

These look too pricey, but illustrate.
https://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/st2/CRG_Folding_8mm_brake.jpg

Liking the hydraulic dry clutch on the duc, took good advice from a ducati forum and removed 2 springs, that was over 4 years ago and had a lighter lever since.
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[Acemastr]

The cable clutch on RR is so bloody strong I have to use 4 fingers and in traffic it actually makes my hand hurt.
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2017 KTM 350 XC-F - 2014 Yamaha R6 - 2005 Yamaha YZ125
2016 Toyota Tacoma Limited